LL-L "Language varieties" 2012.07.30 (02) [EN-NDS]

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 L O W L A N D S - L - 30 July 2012 - Volume 02
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From: Joachim Kreimer-de Fries <Osnabryg+Lowlands at googlemail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2012.07.30 (02) [EN-NDS]

Best Dick, Ingmar, Reinhard & all,

Am 30.07.2012 um 02:37 schrieb Dick van Faassen:

Noordoost Sallands.
*’t Winterkoninkien*.


and Reinhard/Ron commented:

I find that dialect (from close to the German border) very easy to
understand.


Agreed with that, though have I some question on pronunciation:

1.
Diminutive suffix "-ien, -tien" and (plural) "-ies, ties" as in
*winterkoninkien, poossien,
nussien, krummeltien*
and *jonchies, hummelties, gedichies, ponies* etc.

This diminutive syllable seems to be a hybrid of Frisian/Westphalian/Vlaams
"-ken" and NL "(t)je", right?

Therefore I tend spontaneously to pronounce it IPA [-kjən / -tjən, (t)jəs],
but:

Considering the spelling practice in the rest of the text the pronunciation
would be [-i:n, -i:s] i. e. with long EN "ee" = DE long-i.

Which is the correct pronunciation? (Best in IPA-spelling.)

2.
/i'j/ vs. /ij/: the apostrophe between i and j in "bi'j" seems to indicate
pronunciation [i:], i. e. [bi:] - but how the hell in the case of "hij" (EN
*he*) - I would have liked it to be as EN *he, NL ie*, but this in your
text is  already personal pronoun 2. person plural NL *jullie*, EN *you DE
ihr*, so I fear it will be pronounced as NL "hij" i. e. [hɛɪ] - and
analogously will be "zij", "wij", right?

But on the other hand you wright "En doar binne wi'j zo benauwd van
ewörden" , “Hi'j is die kaante uut egaone” and "mi'j" (in “Wat he’j bi'j
mi'j bi'j ’t nust te zuuken, ieje?!” - what seems to indicate the prono
[vi:] as EN "we" LS "wi", [hi:], [mi:] like in EN *we, he, me* LS *wi, mi*.

BTW: "ieje" seems to be some aggressive reduplicating "ie" NL "jij" EN
"thou", DE "dudu" - if not "du Arsch", NL literally "jullie-jij".

 Met echt-westfœlsken »Goutgaun!«
joachim
*-- OT: Please cite/quote always only the relevant/necessary part(s) of
messages when answering to them, this would unburden our mailboxes a little
bit! --*
Kreimer-de Fries
Osnabrügge => Berlin-Pankow

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From: Dick van Faassen faasco at gmail.com
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2012.07.30 (01) [EN-NDS]

Moi Ron,

Ik vinde het goed. I agree. Bin einverstanden.
Ik hadde al kontakt mit een meneer in Holstein (Holsteen), dichte bi'j
de Deense grenze, die mien dialekt goed kun verstoan. Mooi toch?
Mensen die mekaar verstoat!
Oen umzetting van 't Winterkoninkien kump noagenog overiene mit dat
van mi'j en dat van meneer Roerdinkholder.
People understanding each other. No matter their language. So interesting.
Thanks to Lowlands List.

Hartelukke groetn,

Dick.

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From: Dick van Faassen faasco at gmail.com
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2012.07.30 (01) [EN-NDS]

N.B. Rug, back, Ruecken is in Noord-oost Sallands "rugge". Ïch hab'
Rueckenschmerzen" is in Noord-oost Sallandsa: "Ik hebbe 't zoo in de
rugge".
Bi'j  Ingmar: rug (ruecken) = "rogge".
Rogge is bi'j oons een graan woar ze Roggebrood van bakt.  Ha, ha!
Maar dat wet Ingmar ok wel.
Kindest regards,

Dick.

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