LL-L "Orthograp=?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=8Bhy=22_?=2013.01.15 (02) [DE-EN-NDS]

Wed Jan 16 06:36:23 UTC 2013

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 L O W L A N D S - L - 16 January 2013 - Volume 02
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From: Uwe Tychsen tychsen at t-online.de
Subject: LL-L “Orthography” 2013.01.15 (01) [NDS]

Hallo Hanne,

ik mein, Prof. Wilhelm Wisser wiir vör 120 Jåår dor al op'n gauden Wäch:

   - http://www.lowlands-l.net/anniversary/about.php

Worüm hebbt wul al uns Nåwerlänner (vun Holland öwer den Nurden bet in'nt
Baltikum) vör sössdi Jåår dat å infört? Meistens wör dårmit dat aa ersett.
Dat beste Bispill is de Aal.

Låt Di dat gaud gåån,
Uwe

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From: Heiko Evermann <heiko.evermann at gmx.de>
Subject: LL-L “Orthography” 2013.01.15 (01) [NDS]

2013/1/15 Lowlands-L <lowlands.list at gmail.com>:

> Tschä Uwe dat is so'n Saak (seggt Knaak) mit dat a un den'n lütten
Kringel å
> bawenup. Dis' Oort von Schriewen hett Perfessersch Renate Herrmann-Winter
> sick so dacht. Na ja, oewer ob dat glieksens de Anfänger mitkriegen. Dat
> möt nach mien Mein so verklort sien, woans dat snackt ward.

Also ich meine, so ein Kringel-A scheitert einfach daran, dass der
übliche PC-Benutzer nicht weiß, wo er das auf der Tastatur findet.
Auch ich selbst, als Informatiker, wüsste auf die Schnelle nur den
Weg, mir das irgendwo mal rauszusuchen und es mittels copy/paste
reinzufrickeln, oder die Escapesequenz rauszusuchen. Bei Windows:
Alt-0229, und das kann man wirklich nur Informatikern zumuten. Das tut
echt weh.
Selbst wenn man es der Tastatur beibringen würde, (Tastaturtreiber zum
Nachinstallieren bei Windows, Umstellen der Standardtastatur für
Deutsch etc.) wäre das ein gehöriges Stückchen Aufwand und das
Klebchen auf der Tastatur (wo wäre da eigentlich was frei) würde mich
immer angrinsen.

Das sind im Grunde dieselben Probleme wie früher, als die Buchdrucker
das nicht im Setzkasten hatten.

Ach, gah mi af mit disse Kringels, dat geiht ok so.

Heiko

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From: R. F. Hahn sassisch at yahoo.com
 Subject: Orthography

Dear Lowlanders,

Please let me interject in English at this point, in part to offer others a
way into the discussion.

Some writers of German Low Saxon (Low German) use the Scandinavian-derived
letter *å *to represent what in Low Saxon is a long “a” (phonemic /aa/),
which in most dialects is pronounced [ɒː], [ɔː] or [oː]. Other writers
simply use *aa* and *a* (depending on a syllable being open or closed), and
in the far west of Northern Germany as well as on the eastern parts of the
Netherlands, this phoneme tends to be written “ao” or “oa”. In other words,
the pronunciation involves more or less lip rounding. The letter *å *tends
to be used for it by writers of Schleswig-Holstein and others that have
contact with or a predilection for Scandinavia and its languages and wish
to give written Low Saxon texts a “Nordic” look.

Hanne questions the wisdom of using *å *for this phoneme, and Heiko (above)
rejects the practice. OK, so please let me weigh in somewhat briefly!

The phoneme in question is simply /aa/ (i.e., a long “a”) which in Low
Saxon phonetics is realized with more of less lip rounding (much like in “p*
ar*ty” pronounced super-poshly in southern British English). Using *å* for
it is thus superfluous in that it merely constitutes would-be phonetic
detail to signal “a sound not used in German,” i.e., as considered from a
German viewpoint. Everyone that knows or learns Low Saxon ought to know
that /aa/ is phonetically more or less rounded. A special orthographic
device is therefore not needed; *aa*/*a* suffices. Low Saxon is not a
dialect group of German or Dutch and thus, at least in theory, does not
need to do its orthographic planning according to German or Dutch reference
points.

Reportedly, there are some Low Saxon dialects in the Netherlands that do
distinguish [ɒː] and [aː], something of which I have not been convinced so
far. In most Low Saxon instances, what is spelled *aa* ([aː], the sound of
genuine long “a” in Standard Dutch) is phonemically short “a” (/a/) which
before nasals and liquids is phonetically lengthened (e.g. /land/
*laand*[laːnt] vs Dutch /land/
*land* [lɑnt] ‘land’, ‘country’).

Another extreme, in my opinion (sorry, Hanne!) is the Low Saxon orthography
Renate Hermann-Winter uses for the northeastern Low Saxon dialects (of
Mecklenburg and Western Pomerania)—aside from her brief flirt with the
letter *å*. To me, her orthography seems overly beholden to German
conventions, including poor or non-existent distinction between long and
short vowels.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

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