tlahueliloc

[Michael McCafferty]

Rick,

There is no evidence for any relationship between ahhuel /a?wel/ and
tlahue:l- /tlawe:l-/. Note for example the lack of a glottal stop in
tlahue:l- (i.e., it's not */tlahwe:l-/ but /tlawe:l/. Hence there is no term
for "not" (i.e., ah- ) in tlahue:l-. And, as I mentioned yesterday or the
day before, the vowel length is a cause for suspicion in assuming some sort
of identicality between these terms, i.e., -hue:l- cannot be -huel-.

I don't know if it's any help, but maybe it would be useful to think of,
say, "sun" and "son" in English. Now, the analogy is not perfect, since in
fact the two English terms are identical in pronunciation (no messy vowel
length or glottal stop discrepancies to worry about), but are not related
otherwise. They're just homophonous. In the evolution of a language,
sometimes items fall together, or nearly so, haphazardly. In Potawatomi in
the 1800s the third-person singular conjunct verb ending came to resemble a
common locative suffix ending (something like but not exactly like Nahuatl
postpositions). This sort of phenomenon can cause brief moments of
unintelligiblity.

Best,

Michael


Quoting rick dosan <rich_photos at YAHOO.COM>:

>  So, my understanding so far is that tlahueliloc is not from ahuelia, but
> from tlahuel.  And that the meaning of tlahuel is related to Hate or
> "irrascible ".  And ahhuel would have more to do with Impossible, or Bad.
> And I take it that tlahueliloc is related to tlahuel because the phonetics
of
> Tlahueliloc would have no saltillo in the first syllable and a long vowel
in
> the second.  If this is so, could it still be possible that tlahueliloc
> sometime back originally came from ahhuel (bad)?  The reason I'm thining
> this, is that in Molina it's defined as Malvado...  Thanks for all the
> feedback.
> Rich
>
> mmccaffe at INDIANA.EDU wrote:
> Rick,
>
> This is tlahue:l- as in the verb tlahue:lia 'to hate', 'to despise'.
>
> tlahue:liloc literally means 'he/she/it has been hated'.
>
> tlahue:li-lo-c 'despise' + non-active ("passive") marker + past tense
marker
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
> Quoting rick dosan :
>
> > Does anyone have an idea about the root of the word tlahueliloc? Any
> > interesting texts in which it appears?
> >
> > Do any of these seem right?
> >
> >
> > Ueli -- Poder
> >
> > Ueli –lo Se Puede
> >
> > Ueli-lo-c Posible
> > A-ueli-lo-c Imposible
> >
> > Tl(a)-a-ueli.lo.c Quien no es posible/ quien es imposible
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Tlauelia- Estar irritado
> >
> > Tlaueli(a)-lo Se está irritado
> > Tlaueli(a)-lo-c Uno que está irritado
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Uelia (Bueno)
> >
> > A-Uelia (malo)
> > Tlaueliloc (Un malvado)
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Richard Dorfsman
> >
> >
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