Ponca-Pawnee Name Inquiry

Thu Aug 23 22:36:58 UTC 2007

Box ka re sha hash ta ka, which he translated as “Curly haired white man with one tongue.”

Well
It looks like Rory may be to deciphering it for Ponca.  Now for a Pawnee consideration, 1st thing,  ~ Tsahriks Taka would be "person white";  ásku ("one", a number); usú (hair); hat-u (tongue...I think); Sorry, I dont recall a word for "curly".
A white haired, or white headed person would be most likely rendered  as Paks taka.

A typical Pawnee gramatical sentence with the above English rendering would look somewhat like:
man white (or head white)  + he + (evidential makrker) + his + hair - currIy + has         he  + (e.m.) + tongue one + with + speak 

And that is based on the said translation of the said name.  As it looks to my best guess, it says:

Box    ka   re sha  hash   ta ka, which he translated as “Curly haired white man with one tongue.”
Paks   ka    resar(u)  tsariks taka  
head    on    leader    person white        =     Primary leader of the white people.

And the above rendering is factious, because such a thought would more likely be rendered as:

Tsariks taka  witirararaaskukitawiu

Tsariks taka  wi            + ti  ra      + rar            + asku    + kitawi      +    u
white people (evidential) + he who + (pluralizer) + the one + is leading + (completed action marker)

Well, it has been nice to remember some Pawnee again, and give a whirl at cracking yet another undeciphered mysterious name again.
Jimm

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Rory M Larson 
  To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu 
  Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 8:55 AM
  Subject: Re: Ponca-Pawnee Name Inquiry

  I'm tempted toward Ponca too.  I agree with Justin that "re sha" might involve dhe'ze, 'tongue'.  But I would guess that "Box ka" would be Wa'x^e akHa', with the initial w being heard as b, as in the wuhu' vs. bug^u' alternation.  The final part would probably be another akHa':

    Box ka        re sha  hash ta              ka
    Wa'x^e akHa'  dhe'ze  (i)(a)hasht()(a)     akHa'
    The whiteman  tongue  ('one', 'honest' ?)  the

  This would leave us with the -hasht- part still unresolved, and lacking anything about curly hair.

  Justin, what's the word for 'whiteman' in Kaw?

  Rory

  "Justin McBride" <jmcbride at kawnation.com>

                "Justin McBride" <jmcbride at kawnation.com> 
                Sent by: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu 
                08/23/2007 08:24 AM Please respond to
                      siouan at lists.colorado.edu 

              To 
              <siouan at lists.colorado.edu> 

              cc 

              Subject 
              Re: Ponca-Pawnee Name Inquiry 

  Mark,

  I can vaguely imagine the "Box ka re sha" part being ppah(i) ska dheze, 'white hair, tongue...,' and can even imagine "hash ta ka" containing the word ha, 'skin,' possibly in reference to skin color. I just can't place the remaining shtege/shteke/xtege/xteke part, and don't see anything like unto a Kaw word for 'curly.' But that CteCe bit does look kinda Siouan, no?

  -Justin 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Mark J Awakuni-Swetland 
  To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu 
  Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 8:01 AM
  Subject: Ponca-Pawnee Name Inquiry

  Good Morning All, 
  I received this inquiry from John Carter at the Nebraska State Historical Society. Any speculations on this name? 
  Many thanks, 
  Uthixide 

  Mark Awakuni-Swetland, Ph.D.
  http://omahalanguage.unl.edu

  ----- Forwarded by Mark J Awakuni-Swetland/UNLAS/UNL/UNEBR on 08/23/2007 07:57 AM ----- "John Carter" <jcarter at nebraskahistory.org> 
        08/22/2007 04:16 PM 
       To "Mark Awakuni-Sweltand" <mawakuni-swetland2 at unl.edu>  
              cc  
              Subject Another question 

  Mark 
  I am working on some stuff on Julius Meyer, the German Jew in Omaha who claimed to speak six languages and opened the Indian goods store on Farnam Street. 

  He claimed to have been given and Indian name, which he spelled Box ka re sha hash ta ka, which he translated as “Curly haired white man with one tongue.” I have two accounts, one that he got it from the Pawnee and one that he got if from the Ponca. I asked James Riding In if that name made sense to him: he thought it more likely that it was “Curly haired white dude who that a buffalo robe was worth a carton of Marlboros.” It does look like one of those Pawnee jawbreakers but I thought I would just shoot it across your bow for an opinion. 

  Thoughts? 

  Thanks, John 

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