Fw: Jiwele "when".

[Ardis Eschenberg]

Omaha also uses two different clause linkage markers based on present/future
or realis/irrealis.
Best,
Ardis


On 5/9/07, goodtracks at peoplepc.com <goodtracks at peoplepc.com> wrote:
>
> I want to say Thanks to Jill, Bob and John's input.
> As per Bob's suggestion, I will post the question to the list for further
> input.
> It would be of especial interest if there were a similar feature with
> Winnebago/ Hochank, as well as a the similarity or variations among
> related
> languages .
> Jimm
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rankin, Robert L" <rankin at ku.edu>
> To: <goodtracks at peoplepc.com>; "JILL D. GREER" <jgreer at mo-net.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 10:31 AM
> Subject: Jiwele "when".
>
>
> Dear Jill and Jimm,
> A number of languages distinguish between "when in the past" and "when in
> the future", so Jimm may be exactly right about the distrubution.  I'd say
> to post the data on the Siouan List and see if others have the same
> division.
>
> All the best,
> Bob
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> I have a question about the difference in use of  "-da (when; at)" and "-i
> (when; before):
> Examples found:
>
> Rusdánñe^i hinhiwi ke,    It was finished when we got there.
> ^Oñe^i hinhiwi ke,          He was shot/ wounded before we arrived.
> Ch^ehi hinahe^i  hinhiwi ke,  When we arrived they were killing it.
> Irusdan ch^ehiñe^i hinhiwi ke,   They had all ready killed it when we got
> there.
>
> Eswena jida hine hñe ki,  Maybe when he comes/ arrives here, we will go.
> Ñiyuda chi us^ena ke,     Whenever it rains, the house/ roof leaks.
> Ida hinhida  waruje rigidumi hñe ke,  When we get there, I will buy you
> dinner.
>
> >From my examples above, it would seem that the first is used for past
> actions, while the second is used for current and future actions.  What's
> your thoughts??
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jill Greer" <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU>
> To: <goodtracks at peoplepc.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 10:38 AM
> Subject: Re: USE OF "-DA" & "-I"
>
>
> Jimm,
> >From the examples you give, that seems like a logical explanation.  I
> need
> to dig out my Master's thesis to refresh my memory on those particles.  As
> I
> recollect,  there was a spatial dimension that related to i- being within
> the view or eyesight of the speaker, while da was more distant.  Perhaps
> those spatial metaphors are extended to time as well?  That is pretty
> common
> in deictic elements.  My only question is why i- is appearing as a suffix
> here.  I thought it was primarily a prefix, but I guess the language is
> more
> flexible...
> Jill:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Koontz John E" <John.Koontz at Colorado.EDU>
> To: <goodtracks at peoplepc.com>
> Cc: "JILL D. GREER" <jgreer at mo-net.com>; "JILL Greer" <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 10:26 AM
> Subject: Re: USE OF "-DA" & "-I"
>
>
> On Tue, 8 May 2007 goodtracks at peoplepc.com wrote:
> >
> > >From my examples above, it would seem that the first is used for past
> > >actions, while the second is used for current and future actions.
> > >What's your thoughts??
>
> I'd say that's pretty much what it looks like to me, too.  The -i is used
> for temporal succession:
>
> when ..., then (at that time) ...
> after ..., ....
>
> The -da looks like it has to do with conditions, which could be
> characterized as involving futurity or irrealis.
>
> if (perhaps)/when(ever) ..., then (in that case) ....
>
> The use of -ever in English translations (or its potential use) - as with
> eswena jida - helps clarify this as involving conditioning or real ~
> unreal possibilities (irrealis).  English uses the same set of
> conjunctions for both these cases, making it harder to see what's going
> on.
>
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/siouan/attachments/20070510/f530a14f/attachment.htm>