Writing Dialogues in Signed Languages

[Valerie Sutton]

SignWriting List
September 8, 2005

Hello Antonio Carlos, Ingvild, Steve, Stuart, and Everyone!

Thank you for this discussion...

Antônio Carlos wrote:
> I'm very curious about what you are saying on writing dialogues.

Smile. I wish someone had asked me sooner! If a short video clip of a  
dialogue in French Sign Language or Italian Sign Language or  
Brazilian Sign Language (grin),  could be provided for me, in  
QuickTime format...(do not send me the actual vhs video...but send me  
a computer file that can be viewed on a Macintosh)...I would be happy  
to write the dialogue for all of you in SignWriting and post it on  
our web site so that the transcription can be analyzed...We could  
also make it a lesson-discussion on the SignWriting List if you  
wish...and you all could give me feedback and tell me if this or that  
is good and clear or not clear etc...we could learn together that way.

I have written group conversations before, in spoken languages...not  
writing the spoken languages, but writing the body movement of how  
people moved as they reacted to each other during the conversations... 
5 people sitting on a couch and relating to each other with body  
movement and eye gaze...and that was written in Movement Writing  
years ago...in the 1970's in Denmark in the Department of Psychology  
at Riishospitalet in Denmark...can you believe?...and then I was  
asked to write a mother and child reacting to each other...

I have written group dances, where the dancers were moving around a  
central prop in the middle of the stage and relating to the prop from  
different directions...

I have written two brothers, one autistic and one not autistic, and  
how their movements were different from each other...

And then Ingvild clearly understood the issues and mentioned how  
Vertical Columns and Sign Lanes could be used to relate to a  
Reference Point within a Sign Language conversation...

I could begin the transcription in October-November if you wish...

September is booked with the IMWA and testing our new private  
SignPuddles for research groups...


>
>    1) How to display the signers: from top, around the common space  
> betwen them? side by side, in a line, all seem from a distant point  
> of view?

I want to see the QuickTime video clip first before I answer that! ;-))

It can vary depending on the situation...and I can teach you why once  
I see what we are talking about...verbal language is impossible to  
describe such movement relationships...

>
>    2) How to display the dialogue objects )reference points as you  
> mentioned them): in the common space between the signers, with the  
> signers around them? spread along the line of signers, in the  
> second case above?
>
>    3) In any case, how to display spatial relations between the  
> dialog objects? For instance, if we are talking about a pencil that  
> is on a book that is on a table?
>
>    Of course, I'm not asking that you have ready made solutions for  
> those aspects :-) Neither for all the other aspects that I'm not  
> aware of, but that will certainly arise when trying to solve the  
> problem.

I don't think there is any problem. The only problem is that people  
didn't ask me...

It would make me feel better if people asked me, rather than  
struggling with a topic that they may not have realized already has  
solutions...

I know I always seem overworked...that is a personality problem of  
mine! But this can be solved...

If we schedule a time when this video clip could be transcribed, and  
I stick to the schedule, then everyone knows when it will happen, and  
then no one is burdening me...

Truth is I care about the use of SignWriting in the world and I want  
to document what I have experienced...I am open to people's  
suggestions and want to work as a team too...



>
>    But the reason I'm bringing the issue to the list is that I  
> felt, from the talks with the french colleagues, that the problem  
> of representing dialogues is a central one for them. To the point  
> that I would say that the acceptability of SignWriting to them  
> depends precisely on it. Sure, they are all lecturers and  
> researchers, and almost all are non deaf. But I feel that, at the  
> moment at least, they are having a strong say on SignWriting in  
> France.

Well, I am here. And I have met some of the people who use  
SignWriting in France, and it has been a pleasure! I read French well  
enough, that anyone is welcome to send me email in French and I can  
understand it. I may have to answer in English or broken French, but  
at least we can communicate!

People may not realize the long 30 year history we have and that as a  
Movement Writing based system, SignWriting is much more flexible that  
other notation systems that are not based on writing gesture...We are  
gesture-writers...and that gives the writing system enormous  
flexibility and potential...


> By the way, do you know that Marianne Stumpf spent six months this  
> year, in Toulouse and Paris, teaching and explaining SignWriting in  
> various universities and deaf schools, including deaf associations?  
> All interested in the subject of writing sign languages had the  
> opportunity to meet her, and squeeze her :-) to solve their doubts  
> about SignWriting.

I did not know that Marianne stayed there 6 months! How Wonderful!  
But I did know, through my SignWriting email in French signs with  
Juliette Dalle, that Juliette knew Marianne...so this makes sense!

>
>   The talks I had with some of them happened after Marianne's stay,  
> and I felt that the issue of writing dialogues is the crucial one  
> for them.

Sure. There are members of our List from France. Please forgive us  
for talking about you, without you telling us how you feel...I hope  
you all will post some messages and tell us about your projects in  
France. Would you be open to the idea of me writing some dialogues  
from videoclips?


>
>   Just to let you know my personal view of what is happening in  
> France.
>
>   All the best,
>
>   Antônio Carlos

Thank you Antonio Carlos! This is very interesting and I am happy to  
be informed...

I will post my schedule so people understand what is happening with  
me...feel free to book your projects with me everyone -

Val ;-)