Writing the 4 Group in handwriting

Valerie Sutton signwriting at MAC.COM
Fri Dec 1 16:49:43 UTC 2006

SignWriting List
December 1, 2006

Hello Stuart -
Thanks for the info on the iSight camera and video - I will learn how  
to do that!

Of course I am interested in your ideas for handwriting...we did have  
plam facing markers years ago but found they were not used that much  
- but if you feel that is better for you that is terrific and I look  
forward to seeing it - Thanks for working so hard on it...

The shading for palm facing developed for the reader...when we are  
reading documents it is the very best we can do, because we tried  
other forms of palm facing information, and for fast literature  
reading, that is printed by computer anyway, the shading is the best  
for reading...

In the Shorthand we found that all the palm facing information wasn't  
always needed, if the shorthand-taker then transcribed their notes  
quickly into a more detailed form of writing later...

Handwriting is very personal anyway...when I worked with lots of  
people in the 1980's before computers, we all wrote by hand and for  
some reason there was never any issues that I remember because people  
assumed that it didn't have to be perfect since sloppy handwriting  
was re-written with ink pens later, when we published our SignWriter  
Newspaper....so I guess we accepted the differences in handwriting  
styles just as long as we could read it enough to be able to copy and  
re-produce the signs in SignWriting Printing later...

Val ;-)


On Dec 1, 2006, at 8:29 AM, Stuart Thiessen wrote:

> On the Mac, you can use QuickTime Broadcaster to use your iSight  
> camera to create videos. It is available at: http://www.apple.com/ 
> quicktime/broadcaster/. It is a free download. I suppose that you  
> can angle the built=in camera so that it captures your hands  
> writing. Worth a try! :-)
> By frustrating, it is not pull out your hair frustrating, but I  
> just tend to over color it in which if I am writing by pen, I get  
> frustrated because I have to scratch it out and start over. :-)  I  
> do outline it first and then shade in, but I have never been a good  
> one to color inside the lines. Blame my kindergarten teacher, I  
> guess. ;-) That's why I was looking for a faster way.
> I have to be honest, while I like the visual feedback of the  
> shading in the handshapes, I would prefer a separate symbol for  
> orientation so that there is just a simple handshape symbol with  
> the rotations and the flips. I have played around with that idea,  
> but it is not ready for "prime-time". :) This would make all the  
> planes and the diagonals more simple because we don't have to  
> memorize all the variations for shading the handshape. We just have  
> to memorize the standard orientation symbols that somehow connect  
> to the handshapes. I will finish up my idea sometime soon and show  
> you what I am thinking about. But maybe my idea would not work. I  
> don't know. I have to play with it at least. :)
> I would love to attend the workshops, but we will have to see what  
> is in the budget for this year. :)
> Thanks,
> Stuart
> On Dec 1, 2006, at 10:16, Valerie Sutton wrote:
>> SignWriting List
>> December 1, 2006
>> Funny - I never had any problems writing this symbol by hand...May  
>> I ask...is there a way to videotape my hands writing by hand on  
>> the Mac? If I could videotape myself writing by hand, that is the  
>> only way I can think of, to teach you to write handwriting...I  
>> need to show people in person...I know how to take still photos of  
>> myself with Photo Booth program on the Mac, and I have a built-in  
>> camera, but I have never taken a video of myself...if someone can  
>> teach me how to do that then I can post a video of me handwriting  
>> those symbols...
>> Sorry for your frustration...it would be very different if you  
>> were here in person...
>> That is why Kelly Jo and I have been discussing an Advanced  
>> SignWriting Workshop to be held in La Jolla, California (my home  
>> town) in the last weekend of March, 2007. The exact dates and time  
>> are not established yet, but it will be somewhere between March 28  
>> - April 3rd, 2007.
>> I was thinking of holding a SignWriting Seminar that includes  
>> three workshops:
>> SignWriting Handwriting Workshop
>> SignWriting Software Workshop
>> SignWriting Literature Workshop
>> Val ;-)
>> On Dec 1, 2006, at 7:51 AM, Stuart Thiessen wrote:
>>> I don't know if there is an official way as of yet. I think at  
>>> this point we are still at the "print" stage where we try to make  
>>> the handwritten symbol match the printed symbol. We haven't  
>>> graduated to the "cursive" stage where the symbol may be  
>>> significantly abbreviated but understandable. I know that Valerie  
>>> wants to be sure that we all understand the print version before  
>>> we begin to focus on the "cursive" type of symbol. My  
>>> understanding is that her "cursive" versions rely alot on our  
>>> intuition of the standard print system. If we have a solid  
>>> understanding of the standard print system, then we will  
>>> understand the "cursive" better. I don't know if "cursive" is the  
>>> right word for it, since I have only seen samples of the writing  
>>> without any understanding of the rules behind it.
>>> I find the 4 group frustrating to write. I did experiment with  
>>> the idea of eliminating the thumb (to let it disappear into the  
>>> palm), but it only works with 3 of the handshapes. If I eliminate  
>>> the thumb in the other 5 handshapes in the 4 group, then there is  
>>> nothing to distinguish it from similar handshapes in the 5 group  
>>> where the thumb is on the side of the hand. So that is only a  
>>> "partial" solution. Philip and I did discuss it yesterday and  
>>> thought about this idea. What do you guys think ... for handwriting?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Stuart
>>> <Handwriting_4_Group.jpg>
>>> On Dec 1, 2006, at 9:07, Adam Frost wrote:
>>>> I really don't know what is the "official" way of handwritting  
>>>> SW, but
>>>> I use my own sorta "shorthand". I will have to some how show  
>>>> some of
>>>> my writing which is hard to do because I don't have a scanner.
>>>> Adam
>>>> On 12/1/06, Kimberley Shaw <skifoot at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Stuart: I prefer to use a brush pen for Signwriting - that  
>>>>> way I
>>>>> can do the palm of this handshape in 3 strokes, and then  
>>>>> quickly add
>>>>> the fingers! The thumb-in handshapes are indeed tricky to write  
>>>>> well.
>>>>> Best, Kim
>>>>> On 11/30/06, Stuart Thiessen <sw at passitonservices.org> wrote:
>>>>> > I am curious how people have been handwriting the 4 group. I  
>>>>> tend to
>>>>> > have difficulty shading in a "4" handshape without either  
>>>>> coloring in
>>>>> > the thumb or making so small that it is hard to really see. What
>>>>> > writing techniques have you been using to keep it looking  
>>>>> right?  Or do
>>>>> > you have a handwriting shortcut that you use to indicate the  
>>>>> thumb
>>>>> > without using the white space?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Stuart
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >

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