Square Fist Symbol in SignMaker

Valerie Sutton signwriting at MAC.COM
Tue Dec 12 20:49:47 UTC 2006

SignWriting List
December 12, 2006

Hello Stuart, Cherie -
Yes, drag and drop works well for people who are new to SignWriting.  
It also works well for people like me who knows exactly where the  
symbols are located. I believe it is slower for others partly because  
there are so many symbols for so many professions in the IMWA in  
SignPuddle, and partly because people do not know where I placed the  

Thank you, Stuart, for saying you liked my Typing design. That means  
a lot to me so I grinned when I read that...it is good to know.

Yes...a great deal has to do with training. As you know, in my  
generation, here in the US, when I went to high school back in the  
1960's, we learned how to type English. I attended special Typing  
classes to become so skilled at typing that you did not have to look  
down at your hands and that you typed at a certain amount of words  
per minute. I was a fast typist in high school and could have become  
a professional secretary in those days...there were no personal  
computers yet...so most offices hired secretaries to type letters on  
what we consider today to be old typewriters!

So later, those skills influenced the typing design with SignWriter DOS.

SignWriter DOS was historically the first sign processor, or SW  
typewriter, but there will be others in the future. Right now,  
SignPuddle-SignText has pioneered new ground in a different way...it  
has given us vertical writing with Lanes...that never existed in  
SignWriter DOS. When we adapt the old SignWriter DOS typing system to  
the new writing in vertical Lanes, we will have to change the typing  
system slightly to match the new formats...

Other than that, the current drag and drop is similar to the old  
typing system in the sense that there are groups of symbols with  
other symbols hidden underneath...plus the special Command Keys with  
Rotate, Mirror etc are still there in SignPuddle...

I propose that we start talking about Handwriting symbols...I am  
creating a chart with the Handwriting techniques that we discussed by  
videophone last Friday...

So watch for the next message on Handwriting...hopefully by tomorrow  
morning I will post it to the List. Today I am going Christmas  
shopping with my Mom!

Happy Holidays everyone!

Val ;-)


Learning to type in typing classes taught me a lot about that  

On Dec 12, 2006, at 12:10 PM, Stuart Thiessen wrote:
> Interesting. I know Philip likes drag and drop. I am a keyboardist.  
> I miss the keyboarding as well. I never had a problem with learning  
> the SW-DOS keyboard. Valerie had a very excellent design once you  
> grasped her system. I'm looking forward to having both available in  
> SignPuddle/SignText. I think it all goes back to training. If we  
> all had the training, we could have used it efficiently just like  
> we use the English keyboard. I suspect most of us are QWERTY  
> typists, but there are people who say they can type faster with  
> Dvorak. So, it all goes back to training and learning the system  
> well. :)
> Thanks,
> Stuart
> On Dec 12, 2006, at 14:02, CWren at doe.k12.ga.us wrote:
>> I personally like the drag and drop.  I tried to learn SW back  
>> when it was SW DOS, and gave up, as I couldn't learn the keyboard  
>> and find the symbols.  I also like to be able to place the symbols  
>> in relation to each other in drag and drop... I don't think you  
>> could do that with a keyboard system--   Granted it isn't really  
>> quick enough to be viable as a writing system for me, yet, but Val  
>> can do it quickly-- as her demo showed.
>>  I just did my first real try at handwriting, and am quite pleased  
>> with the results.  Its excellent for planning out what I will be  
>> doing in a 'performance'.  (I will be signing/interpreting the  
>> Twelve Days of Christmas for a program tomorrow, and wanted to be  
>> able to have a cheat sheet on hand to practice with...)
>>  ---------------------------------
>>  Cherie Wren
>>  GSD Staff Interpreter
>>  232 Perry Farm Rd
>>  Cave Spring, GA 30124
>>  706-777-2328
>>  706-766-0766 Cell
>>  This message and any included attachments are from the Georgia  
>> School for the Deaf and are intended only for the addressee(s).  
>> The information contained herein may include privileged or  
>> otherwise confidential information. If you have received this  
>> message in error, please contact the sender immediately, and  
>> delete it from your system.
>> "Kimberley Shaw" <skifoot at gmail.com>
>> Sent by: owner-sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>> 12/12/2006 02:05 PM
>> Please respond to
>>  sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>> To
>> sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>> cc
>> Subject
>> Re: [sw-l] Square Fist Symbol in SignMaker
>> Yes, please, I second that!
>>  There's a lot to like about drag and drop ... but as a touch- 
>> typist myself, drag-and-drop does not feel like "writing" when I  
>> want to put something directly from my head into a document.
>>  Hope your time in Brazil is going excellently, Charles!
>>  Sounds like great things going on there.
>>  -- Kim from Boston
>> On 12/12/06, Charles Butler <chazzer3332000 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> I really am looking forward to the day that we are back to a  
>> typing rather than a drag and drop system for Sign Writing.  Drag  
>> and drop takes forever, and typing with specific sequences helps  
>> one to memorize the system much better.  I know that the DOS  
>> system and Windows 98 are no longer supported but they really  
>> could do a lot of things well, even though they didn´t save into  
>> SignBank or IMWA.
>> Just my opinion (I have been a speed typist since I was 14) as I  
>> would like to be able to duplicate that speed in sign writing,  
>> which would show a distinct advantage in showing the applicability  
>> of an equivalent system for reproduction as typing is to spoken  
>> language.
>> Charles Butler
>>  Valerie Sutton < Sutton at SignWriting.org> wrote:
>> SignWriting List
>>  December 12, 2006
>>  On Dec 12, 2006, a question from a SignPuddle user:
>>  > I tried to find just plain Square symbol but i cannot find it ...
>>  > all square symbols have lines attached it ... i just want a plain
>>  > square because it is fist hand...
>>  Thank you for your question. You looked in the correct place. The
>>  very LAST symbol, has no thumb lines attached. It is a plain
>>  square...See attached diagram...

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