faces vertical or horizontal.

Sat Dec 5 16:13:23 UTC 2009

Hi Stefan, Cherie, Val and everyone,

    Cherie, thank you for your comment regarding the time-dependent factor (timing issue).

    Stefan, I am happy that you told me that this does not make sense!

    First, I discuss about a horizontal line of English written from left to right. Second, I show how to compare between vertical and horizontal fingerspelling and compound sign of the SW.  Third, I discuss about a sign name J D.

    Firstly, someone writing English knows how to write it horizontally from left to right because this is writing standard English.  See the attached “English”. You will notice that there is a way to write English and there is a way not to write English.  Why is there a way not to write English?  Because the eyes continue to move horizontally from left to right, but they have to stop and then move vertically from top-down. Then they are back to move horizontally from left to right. The readers are not pleased to alternatively read horizontal and vertical lines.

    Secondly, you don’t understand my idea, what is this?  I focus on fingerspelling (city, sign name and name) and compound sign.  If you use a Sign Text in the SignPuddle™, the Sign Text is written in the vertical columns.  See the attached “horizontal fingerspelling and compound sign”.  You will notice that the horizontal fingerspelling is ‘André Thibeault’, and the horizontal compound sign is ‘deafblind’. Your eye movement continues reading vertically from top-down. It stops at the fingerspelling and moves from left to right. Then, it moves down again. It stops at the compound sign and moves from left to right. See the attached “h-English” to compare to the attached “horizontal fingerspelling and compound sign”.

    Using the Sign Text in vertical columns. See the attached “vertical fingerspelling and compound sign”. You will notice that the vertical fingerspelling is ‘André Thibeault’, and the vertical compound sign is ‘deafblind’. Your eye movement continues reading vertically from top-down.  See the attached “v-English” to compare to the attached “vertical fingerspelling and compound sign”.  I hope that you will understand my idea.

    Thirdly, I discuss about the sign name J D.  You mentioned that you prefer writing horizontally first J and then D.  If you write horizontally a SW from left to right in horizontal lanes (columns), your eyes can smoothly read a horizontal sign name such as “J D”. This should be standard spelling.  If you write vertically the horizontal sign name J D in vertical columns, your eyes alternatively move from top-down and then from left to right.  This should not be standard spelling.  If someone writes vertically the vertical sign name J D, your eyes can easily continue to read vertically.  This should be standard spelling.

    Regarding the multiple faces (mouthing of spoken language and facial expressions), someone needs to study and do more research. For example, Cherie mentioned that it is time-dependent.

    Stefan, I believe that you use horizontal (from left to right) multiple faces for a mouthing in horizontal lanes. Reading horizontally, the eye movement should be fluid, smooth and unconstrained.  But, I do not know if horizontal multiple faces for a mouthing of spoken language can be read effectively in vertical columns.  I did write a few vertical  and horizontal multiple faces for a mouthing of French language in my LSQ document (in vertical columns).  I need to learn a GebeardenSchift .  I can’t understand the German language.

    Best regards,

    André

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Cherie Wren 
  To: SignWriting List 
  Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:25 AM
  Subject: Re: [sw-l]faces vertical or horizontal.

  I remember some discussions of this when I was writing Cat in the Hat.  Some faces I wrote vertically, because certain points of the face had to match certain points in the signing, but sometimes it was mouthing that went with the sign, and I wrote that horizontally.  It was a timing issue, mostly, If I recall correctly.  Like the vertical spelling of Charles someone recently wrote in...  the timing of the head nod has to match the timing of the spelling just so.  I'll have to see if I can find that conversation again.  To me, horizontal feels like 'all at once'  and vertical feels sequential.

  cherie
  Georgia School for the Deaf

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  From: SignWriting <signwriting at mac.com>
  To: SignWriting List <sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu>
  Sent: Thu, December 3, 2009 10:14:24 PM
  Subject: [sw-l] Print SignWriting Greeting Cards

  SignWriting List
  December 3, 2009

  Hello Everyone!
  I have not been following this conversation completely, I do apologize for that....We have had an increase in book orders, and I have been fulfilling those orders, sending books on SignWriting around the world...very nice to have more orders right before Christmas...

  Regarding the direction of writing in SignWriting...everyone is welcome to write as it seems best for them...We all have our reasons to write one direction or the other, and all directions of writing signs, is better than no writing of signs...so I suggest that we write as it seems best to us, and over time, standards will develop...

  And yes, Stefan, your documents and dictionaries are amazing! Thank you for all the writing you are doing in SignPuddle. Your dictionary has over 10,000 signs!!

  German SignPuddles
  http://www.signbank.org/signpuddle/index.html#sgn-DE

  And thank you, Andre, for the documents and dictionaries from French Canada...I can see you have added a lot since I last looked:

  French-Canadian SignPuddles
  http://www.signbank.org/signpuddle/index1.html#sgn-CA-fr

  It is exciting to see how much is being accomplished everyday in SignPuddle...people are adding thousands of signs in many countries...

  Regarding rules of writing...people informed me that they did not want rules, so that is ok...no need to change the way you all are writing...

  So I am just writing my particular style and trying to explain the rules that guide my own personal writing, and then others can choose what they feel is best...

  Because I write vertically with lanes, i also write fingerspelling vertically. When it comes to writing multiple facial expressions, that is an interesting question...sometimes I write them horiztonally and sometimes vertically...but now I will really think about this and see what feels natural next time I write a document...

  So thank you, to everyone, for your input and I plan to read more of your messages later this month, as soon as the Christmas rush has died down...I hope you are enjoying your December...

  Val ;-)

  -----------

  On Dec 3, 2009, at 3:25 PM, Stefan Wöhrmann wrote:
  > HI André
  > I do not understand your idea. Your attached documents –hmm what is this? This does not make sense!    There are so many well written SW-documents in the German SignPuddle if you are interested to read German Sign Language written in GebaerdenSchrift.  Your documents do not show GebaerdenSchrift. ..hm....So many other projects on my todo list. I have to focus on other things ...
  >  Stefan ;-)

  -----------------------

  On Dec 3, 2009, at 9:57 AM, Gagnon et Thibeault wrote:

  > Hallo Stefan and everyone,
  > 
  >    Who is the reader?
  > 
  >    I assume that the reader reads and writes a SW in vertical coloumns because Val already mentioned that Deaf people requested writing in vertical coloumns.
  > 
  >    What are spelling standards and spelling rule violations?
  > 
  >    Stefan, You have a good question.
  > 
  >    You will see the attached "read horizontally" and "read vertically" for fingerspelling names and compound signs.  In addition, you will see the attached "horizontal Gebradeschreft" and "vertical Gebradeschrefts" for a speech.
  > 
  >    Sw-list friends, What do you think about spelling standards and rule violations?
  > 
  >    Best regards,
  > 
  >    André

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