Nominal vs Cardinal numbers in ASL

Sun Feb 8 23:07:00 UTC 2009

Well, as Val had mentioned before, books written in SignWriting aren't  
very commonplace, so this is all a test and see sort of thing. When I  
was first learning SignWriting, I liked that the page numbers were in  
SignWriting and not with Arabic numerals. However, now that I have  
gotten skilled with SignWriting and since it was first mentioned a  
short time ago, I am leaning more to the idea that page numbers might  
be better with Arabic numerals. I didn't mention anything before  
because it wasn't what was asked. ;-) But this is a really good  
question about how numbering pages in SignWritten books should go. I  
am curious how others feel. :-)

Adam

On Feb 8, 2009, at 2:47 PM, Natasha Escalada-Westland wrote:

> Maybe this has been brought up before regarding page numbers, but I  
> am curious, why can't the Arabic numerals be used?  Written English  
> (and many other written languages) numbers pages using 1, 2, 3 and  
> so forth rather than one, two, three or uno, dos, tres.  I'm  
> wondering what the consensus is with regard to SignWriting?
>
> Natasha Escalada-Westland, M.Ed. (D/HH), Macromedia Cert.
> www.westlandasl.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > From: sutton at signwriting.org
> > To: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> > Subject: Re: [sw-l] Nominal vs Cardinal numbers in ASL
> > Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 12:43:28 -0800
> >
> > SignWriting List
> > February 8, 2009
> >
> > Thank you, Adam, for this really good explanation of the  
> problem...and
> > for your vote for nominal. That has always been my feeling too...
> >
> > However, around four months ago I had a long discussion with another
> > native ASL signer about this and that person voted for the
> > cardinal...so if you count my vote, then we have one cardinal and  
> two
> > nominal, but i am not native or Deaf...so we need more opinions, or
> > maybe test readers and ask them to search for pages in the book only
> > using ASL numbers to see which works best for them finding the pages
> > fast...
> >
> > Any others have opinions on nominal or cardinal page numbers in ASL?
> >
> > Val ;-)
> >
> > -----------
> >
> >
> >
> > On Feb 8, 2009, at 12:01 PM, Adam Frost wrote:
> >
> > > A very fine line here because page numbers are counted pages which
> > > number the page with a label. They are often used as both
> > > interchangeably mostly because English doesn't distinguish between
> > > both and most people don't know the difference. When thinking  
> about
> > > how I usually refer to pages, I usually use the cardinal form as I
> > > am basically saying "turn 5 pages from the beginning" verses "turn
> > > to page 5" which would use the nominal form. However, I think that
> > > we are actually labeling the page as "Page 5" so I think that in
> > > this case it should be nominals that are used. I hope that makes
> > > sense. Anyway, that is my 2 cents worth. (Hmm... would that 2 be
> > > cardinal or nominal? Ha!) ;-)
> > >
> > > Adam
> > >
> > > On Feb 8, 2009, at 11:40 AM, SignWriting wrote:
> > >
> > >> SignWriting List
> > >> February 8, 2009
> > >>
> > >> Hi SW Listers!
> > >> I need your advice. Most ASL numbers are the same whether they  
> are
> > >> nominal or cardinal, but there are five that are different....the
> > >> first five numbers are cardinal inside a sentence, but nominal  
> when
> > >> telling people your phone number, your apartment number etc...I
> > >> believe that is correct anyway ;-))
> > >>
> > >> In other words, the cardinal is part of meaning in a sentence,  
> but
> > >> the nominal is like a "label"...like stating your Social Security
> > >> Number (a long number that represents a person in the US)...if it
> > >> has a lot of "ones"...like 111-897-1102...or something like
> > >> that...I don't believe the palm turns towards the chest when
> > >> stating your Social Security Number, does it?
> > >>
> > >> So when reading tiny tiny page numbers at the bottom of pages  
> in a
> > >> 500 page SignWriting book, should the page numbers be nominal or
> > >> cardinal? I have always felt that the page numbers were like
> > >> "labels" for finding a page quickly...but others have disagreed
> > >> with me...meanwhile most people do not have a lot of experience
> > >> reading large books in SignWriting yet, including myself, so we  
> all
> > >> are guessing a bit... It may really be a matter of all of us
> > >> getting used to this, and figuring out, by testing readers, who  
> can
> > >> find page 1 faster...when it is nominal or cardinal? smile...
> > >>
> > >> I am updating our old Goldilocks documents with the symbols of  
> the
> > >> ISWA and while I am doing that update anyway, I wondered about  
> the
> > >> page numbers...They were nominal in the old documents.
> > >>
> > >> Should page numbers be nominal or cardinal? Please see  
> attached...
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> <Nominal-Cardinal.png>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
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> > >
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