SW-L Digest, Vol 31, Issue 20

Thu Feb 11 17:33:14 UTC 2010

Dear Valerie,
The volume 1 of our Novo Dic Libras has finally been released.
It is simply awsome.
Yet volume 2 is to be released only by March because there is not enough
Couche paper in this country and it has to be imported.
(26,000 dictionaries, each with 2,500 pages).
As soon as volume 2 is released I'll send you both volumes. You'll love
them.
Thank you.
Fernando

2010/2/11 <sw-l-request at majordomo.valenciacc.edu>

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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: signspelling sequence (Honza)
>   2. Re: signspelling sequence (Steve Slevinski)
>   3. Re: signspelling sequence (Honza)
>   4. Re: signspelling sequence (Charles Butler)
>
>
> ---------- Mensagem encaminhada ----------
> From: Honza <honza at ruce.cz>
> To: "SignWriting List" <sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu>
> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:36:08 +0100
> Subject: Re: [sw-l] signspelling sequence
> Hi Val and Steve,
>
> I have already seen that "analyze etc.."
> But what is the right goal of "sequence". Was it created just for
> sorting signs by that in dictionaries or are there more purposes?
> I wander if there are rules how to write sequence correctly.
>
> I am now working on automatic convertor within signwriting and
> hamnosys. I thought it could be useful for that.
> I don't know if anyone has ever try to do it.
>
> Honza
>
> On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 4:45 PM, Valerie Sutton <sutton at signwriting.org>
> wrote:
> > SignWriting List
> > February 10, 2010
> >
> > On Feb 10, 2010, at 6:53 AM, Honza wrote:
> >> sorry If you explain this already, but I haven´t foud it in recent
> posts.
> >> Can you explain me why in SignPuddle is SignSpelling and Sequence?
> >> Are there any rules for writing Sequence?
> >> it is important.
> >
> > Hello Honza!
> >
> > A SignSpelling is the way a sign is written...the way the sign looks, in
> a visual cluster, when we read signs.
> >
> > A SignSpelling Sequence is for computer-sorting of signs in dictionaries.
> Which handshape starts the sign? Which symbol ends the sign? This is needed
> because in dictionaries, we look up by Sign-Symbols. There are two important
> processes needed to sort dictionaries by Sign-Symbols. First, you need to
> know the sequence of symbols within each sign. Second, those SignSpelling
> Sequences are then sorted by the SignWriting alphabetical order of symbols
> in the ISWA, which I call the Sign-Symbol-Sequence.
> >
> > Here is a small booklet called SignSpelling Guidelines 2008. I actually
> want to re-write and expand upon this manual. It is based on my experience
> with sorting around 3000-4000 signs, and printing the listing of the signs
> sorted by Sign-Symbols, and what i personally found was true when people
> tried to find a sign in the listing...I know there are many theories on what
> the SignSpelling Sequence rules should be, and I am open to all of
> them...this booklet just shows my experience with looking up signs...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Also Steve Slevinski has placed some cool new features in SignPuddle.
> Under each sign or document in SignPuddle, you will see an Analyze
> link...Click on that Analyze Link. Try it with both a single sign-entry in
> SignPuddle, and also with a real document with sentences in SignPuddle.
> Click on Analyze and then click on Sort (see screen capture attached). It
> will show you the "automated" SignSpelling Sequences for each sign in that
> document...Automated SignSpelling Sequences are the computer's best-guesses
> as to what the SignSpelling Sequence should be, based on the ISWA, but if a
> person has manually changed the SignSpelling Sequence in SignPuddle, then it
> will show that...(I believe that is true...is this correct,
> Steve?)...wonderful software for all of us to analyze signs and documents!
> >
> > Val ;-)
> >
> > see attached...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________
> >
> > SW-L SignWriting List
> >
> > Post Message
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> >
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>
>
>
>
> ---------- Mensagem encaminhada ----------
> From: "Steve Slevinski" <slevin at signpuddle.net>
> To: "SignWriting List" <sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu>
> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:11:31 -0600
> Subject: Re: [sw-l] signspelling sequence
> Hi Honza,
>
> We only use the sequence for sorting.  The PDF that Val previously sent
> contains the guidelines for writing sequences.
>
> http://www.signwriting.org/archive/docs6/sw0534-SignSpellingGuidelines-2008.pdf
>
> People interested in animation have also looked at the sequence.  However,
> there are 2 issues here.  The first is to automate the creation of the
> sequence.  The second is to use the sequence to help understand the spatial
> spelling.
>
> To automate the creation of the sequence, you'd need to analyze each arrow
> BaseSymbol (maybe each symbol) for head and tail position.  You'd need to
> fill in any assumed symbols that are not included in the spelling, such as
> starting or ending handshapes.  There are several other issues as well.
>
> To use the sequence to understand the spatial spelling, you'd need to match
> the symbols in the sequence to the symbols in the spatial spelling.  Except
> where symbols are repeated, this should be straight forward.  For repeated
> symbols, you'd need the same logic as was used to automate the creation of
> the sequence.
>
> So, there may be additional uses for the sequence.  My current automation
> of the sequence is very simplistic.  I take the symbols used in the spelling
> and sort them according to the ISWA order.  This simple sequence would not
> be useful for animation or conversion.  I will revisit the automatic
> creation of the sequence in the future.
>
> Regards,
> -Steve
>
>
>
> ---------- Mensagem encaminhada ----------
> From: Honza <honza at ruce.cz>
> To: "SignWriting List" <sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu>
> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:20:01 +0100
> Subject: Re: [sw-l] signspelling sequence
> Hi Steve,
>
> thanks for link to pdf.
> I think it can be useful for us.
> I just have one more question - if there is difficult sign that
> contains more difficult spelling including more than starting and end
> position of hands how do you make spelling then?
> Do you use syllables from 1 again?
>
> thanks
> Honza
>
> On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 4:11 PM, Steve Slevinski <slevin at signpuddle.net>
> wrote:
> > Hi Honza,
> >
> > We only use the sequence for sorting.  The PDF that Val previously sent
> > contains the guidelines for writing sequences.
> >
> http://www.signwriting.org/archive/docs6/sw0534-SignSpellingGuidelines-2008.pdf
> >
> > People interested in animation have also looked at the sequence.
>  However,
> > there are 2 issues here.  The first is to automate the creation of the
> > sequence.  The second is to use the sequence to help understand the
> spatial
> > spelling.
> >
> > To automate the creation of the sequence, you'd need to analyze each
> arrow
> > BaseSymbol (maybe each symbol) for head and tail position.  You'd need to
> > fill in any assumed symbols that are not included in the spelling, such
> as
> > starting or ending handshapes.  There are several other issues as well.
> >
> > To use the sequence to understand the spatial spelling, you'd need to
> match
> > the symbols in the sequence to the symbols in the spatial spelling.
>  Except
> > where symbols are repeated, this should be straight forward.  For
> repeated
> > symbols, you'd need the same logic as was used to automate the creation
> of
> > the sequence.
> >
> > So, there may be additional uses for the sequence.  My current automation
> of
> > the sequence is very simplistic.  I take the symbols used in the spelling
> > and sort them according to the ISWA order.  This simple sequence would
> not
> > be useful for animation or conversion.  I will revisit the automatic
> > creation of the sequence in the future.
> >
> > Regards,
> > -Steve
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________
> >
> > SW-L SignWriting List
> >
> > Post Message
> > SW-L at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> >
> > List Archives and Help
> > http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/
> >
> > Change Email Settings
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> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Mensagem encaminhada ----------
> From: "Charles Butler" <chazzer3332000 at yahoo.com>
> To: "SignWriting List" <sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu>
> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:00:40 -0800 (PST)
> Subject: Re: [sw-l] signspelling sequence
>  At least for me, if you have a sign that requires multiple syllables to
> spell it out, such as two hands spiraling and then one landing on the other,
> you'd have to break it into syllables.  I'm thinking of something like "Jack
> and Jill falling down the hill".  I'd be likely to have the two hands roll
> first (as one sign) and then have the contact point as a separate sign
> rather than trying to merge them altogether.
>
> However, something like "microwave" which has "box" + "magic" has both two
> hands drawing a box, and then opening up to five hands to go "poof" . That's
> two hands, opposite motions, and then a second set of spelling to cover the
> "poof".
>
> I tried to finish the sign but for some reason I can't fathom I can't get
> back into the sign to edit it.
>
>      *microwave*
>
> electrical device for heating food.
>
> Sign in BSW: View<http://www.signbank.org/swis/glyphogram.php?bsw=00800150f90cf8b00158f8f0f8af7602f915f8d6761af8ddf8d61cd1f914f9031cd9f8e3f9010081015001587602761a1cd11cd9>
> , Analyze<http://www.signbank.org/swis/iswa/index.html?bsw=00800150f90cf8b00158f8f0f8af7602f915f8d6761af8ddf8d61cd1f914f9031cd9f8e3f9010081015001587602761a1cd11cd9>
> Sign in UTF-8: View<http://www.signbank.org/swis/glyphogram.php?utf=%F1%80%82%80%F1%80%85%90%F1%8F%A4%8C%F1%8F%A2%B0%F1%80%85%98%F1%8F%A3%B0%F1%8F%A2%AF%F1%87%98%82%F1%8F%A4%95%F1%8F%A3%96%F1%87%98%9A%F1%8F%A3%9D%F1%8F%A3%96%F1%81%B3%91%F1%8F%A4%94%F1%8F%A4%83%F1%81%B3%99%F1%8F%A3%A3%F1%8F%A4%81%F1%80%82%81%F1%80%85%90%F1%80%85%98%F1%87%98%82%F1%87%98%9A%F1%81%B3%91%F1%81%B3%99>
> , Analyze<http://www.signbank.org/swis/iswa/index.html?utf=%F1%80%82%80%F1%80%85%90%F1%8F%A4%8C%F1%8F%A2%B0%F1%80%85%98%F1%8F%A3%B0%F1%8F%A2%AF%F1%87%98%82%F1%8F%A4%95%F1%8F%A3%96%F1%87%98%9A%F1%8F%A3%9D%F1%8F%A3%96%F1%81%B3%91%F1%8F%A4%94%F1%8F%A4%83%F1%81%B3%99%F1%8F%A3%A3%F1%8F%A4%81%F1%80%82%81%F1%80%85%90%F1%80%85%98%F1%87%98%82%F1%87%98%9A%F1%81%B3%91%F1%81%B3%99>
> Source: Charles Butler Neto 2010
> Modified: February 11, 2010 08:54
> Puddle page 10669
>
>  ------------------------------
> *From:* Honza <honza at ruce.cz>
> *To:* SignWriting List <sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu>
> *Sent:* Thu, February 11, 2010 11:20:01 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [sw-l] signspelling sequence
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> thanks for link to pdf.
> I think it can be useful for us.
> I just have one more question - if there is difficult sign that
> contains more difficult spelling including more than starting and end
> position of hands how do you make spelling then?
> Do you use syllables from 1 again?
>
> thanks
> Honza
>
> On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 4:11 PM, Steve Slevinski <slevin at signpuddle.net>
> wrote:
> > Hi Honza,
> >
> > We only use the sequence for sorting.  The PDF that Val previously sent
> > contains the guidelines for writing sequences.
> >
> http://www.signwriting.org/archive/docs6/sw0534-SignSpellingGuidelines-2008.pdf
> >
> > People interested in animation have also looked at the sequence.
>  However,
> > there are 2 issues here.  The first is to automate the creation of the
> > sequence.  The second is to use the sequence to help understand the
> spatial
> > spelling.
> >
> > To automate the creation of the sequence, you'd need to analyze each
> arrow
> > BaseSymbol (maybe each symbol) for head and tail position.  You'd need to
> > fill in any assumed symbols that are not included in the spelling, such
> as
> > starting or ending handshapes.  There are several other issues as well.
> >
> > To use the sequence to understand the spatial spelling, you'd need to
> match
> > the symbols in the sequence to the symbols in the spatial spelling.
>  Except
> > where symbols are repeated, this should be straight forward.  For
> repeated
> > symbols, you'd need the same logic as was used to automate the creation
> of
> > the sequence.
> >
> > So, there may be additional uses for the sequence.  My current automation
> of
> > the sequence is very simplistic.  I take the symbols used in the spelling
> > and sort them according to the ISWA order.  This simple sequence would
> not
> > be useful for animation or conversion.  I will revisit the automatic
> > creation of the sequence in the future.
> >
> > Regards,
> > -Steve
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________
> >
> > SW-L SignWriting List
> >
> > Post Message
> > SW-L at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
> >
> > List Archives and Help
> > http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist/
> >
> > Change Email Settings
> > http://majordomo.valenciacc.edu/mailman/listinfo/sw-l
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________
>
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>
> SW-L SignWriting List
>
> Post Message
> SW-L at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>
> List Archives and Help
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>
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