embedding ASL in pdf/html

[Alan Post]

Thank you for these guidelines.  The page that discusses sign
language as it pertains to "lo do ckiku ma zvati" is located here:

  http://lodockikumazvati.org/xanbau/

This page does not yet incorporate the feedback you've given me
below, it is how I wrote it before this discussion.  By the end
of the day I will review this page for each point in this list
and made additions and modifications.

I'd like to start by talking about the name of the page itself.
In Lojban, there is no use of metaphor.  If you're talking about
a "social butterfly" you're strictly speaking of an insect with
large brightly-colored wings, of the family lepidoptera.

As well, there are no words with more than one meaning.  The word
"sign" in English has several meanings that translate into
different signs in ASL.

I selected the Lojban word xanbau for "sign language," though the
literal translation is "handish-language(s)"  The word xanbau is
a contraction of "xance bangu," which means the same thing: "hand
language."

I made this selection knowing full well that more than hands are
involved in speaking sign language.  Using your hands was to me
the single most distinguishing feature of sign language, so the
word xanbau served to distinguish the idea of sign language from
anything other type of language communication.  I did not try to
capture the entirety of what is sign language, but rather the
essential of what distinguishes sign language for other forms of
language.

Possibly more difficult to communicate, there is no connotation in
Lojban either.  Since the language is culturally neutral, and since
it highly values clarity of thought, you would not be committing a
social gaffe to say something like "I need to excrete feces." when
in American English you would say "I need to go to the bathroom."

A Lojban speaker would not therefor hear "handish-language(s)" and
mistake that for a value judgement regarding the method of
communication.  There are words for attaching one's emotional
response to a phrase, and the absence of a value judgement phrase
itself becomes noteworthy such that a curious person would ask the
speaker to articulate the notably absent part of speach, if they
wanted to know how xanbau was valued by the person.

I hope I've articulated some of the unique features of Lojban and in
what ways it doesn't meet the same expectations of English, and
having tried to communicate a bit about what Lojban is like, How do
either of you feel about my translation of sign language into
"handish-language(s)"?

-Alan


On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 11:26:02AM +0100, Ingvild Roald wrote:
>    My feeling too - it is dangerous ground. But if it made clear that:
> 
>    1) ASL and other sign languages are real languages, used by real people
>    2) as real languages, they have their own grammar
>    3) that what is used in your game is individual signs borrowed from ASL,
>    and not the real ASL language
>    4) that learning the signs of ASL is not learning ASL
>    5) that knowing ASL signs may ease communication with ASL signers, if you
>    are aware of the limitations mentioned above.
> 
>    If this is not made very clear in the use of the signs, I fully understand
>    how this make give a feeling of being 'raped' . Deaf people have been
>    through so many hard times trying to make other understand, that they are
>    often quite a bit sensitive to this issue. At the same time, when showing
>    with humilty and respect, a person who uses signs haltingly is usually
>    made to feel welcome in a signing setting. At least, this is my experience
> 
>    Ingvild (Norway, non-Deaf)
> 
>    > From: icemandeaf at gmail.com
>    > To: sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>    > Subject: Re: [sw-l] embedding ASL in pdf/html
>    > Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 11:32:19 -0700
>    >
>    > That's exactly what he meant. It is something that has to be treaded
>    > carefully because it has happened too many times where that exact fear
>    > has happened. That is why so many Deaf people are so protective.
>    >
>    > Adam
>    >
>    > On Mar 23, 2010, at 11:15 AM, Valerie Sutton wrote:
>    >
>    > > So I am trying to imagine what the Deaf person meant by saying that
>    > > to you...I would assume there is a possible fear, that hearing
>    > > people will use Deaf people's native language, ASL, which is a true
>    > > language, just for games, and not understand its importance in
>    > > society .... do you think that was what he meant?
>    > >
>    > > Adam?
>    >
>    >
>    >
>    >
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> 
> 
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-- 
te djuno lo do sevzi



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