Ordering Signs in Dictionaries

Thu Aug 14 01:06:25 UTC 2014

On 8/13/2014 6:18 PM, Ingvild Roald wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> My undestanding at the moment is that a dictionary should be ordered by
>
> 1) the sign spelling sequence
>
> 2) inside this sequence, the ordering should be done by a system 
> agreed upon by all.
>
> This would be something like (but much more complex than) a sequence 
> inside a roman alphabeth where different diacritics should follow in a 
> special odrer.
>
> I think that the spelling sequence, which is based on the the timing 
> inside a sign, is important and natural.
>
> The order in which the symbols are written, on the other hand, is not 
> important and may differ widely from scribe to scribe. The sign is not 
> written until it is finished, the symbols may be adjusted many times 
> before that. Therefore it is very hard to automate the spelling 
> sequencing at this moment. Maybe in anothe forty years?
Yes, automating spelling sequence according to timing inside a sign and 
the syllables like shown in SignSpelling Guidelines 2008 would be very hard.

Regards,
Jonathan
>
> Ingvild
>
> Sendt fra min iPad
>
> Den 14. aug. 2014 kl. 00:03 skrev "Jonathan Duncan" 
> <duncanjonathan at YAHOO.CA <mailto:duncanjonathan at YAHOO.CA>>:
>
>> Hi Val,SignSpelling Guidelines 2008
>>     Thank you for explaining this.  I am familiar with the sign 
>> sequence.  It is implemented in SignWriter Studio but I is not 
>> currently using it to sort.  Also it being part of the the FSW where 
>> practically the first symbol of a sign sequence is compared to first 
>> symbol  of another sign sequence, and so one with the second, third 
>> symbol in the sequence until one is before the other in the default 
>> ISWA 2010 order.  Once the sign sequence is inputed, they can be 
>> easily sorted with any text sorting algorithm.
>>     What I got out of Charles talk is that he is proposing a 
>> different order for sorting the symbols than the default ISWA 2010 
>> order.   Basically it would be assigned a different sort weight to 
>> each of the symbols in ISWA2010 than those currently being the default.
>>
>> Thank you for sharing the link  to the SignSpelling Guidelines 2008.  
>> It will be useful for comparing both types of sorting.
>>
>> If you don't mind my asking what was it the you thought that Steve 
>> had that could help Charles with his sorting order just as he was 
>> finishing his talk?
>> Thanks
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>> On 8/13/2014 1:52 PM, Valerie Sutton wrote:
>>> SignWriting List
>>> August 13, 2014
>>>
>>> OK.  There is the world of software, that has many users - software 
>>> may need to be flexible
>>>
>>> There seem to be two needs…
>>>
>>> 1. There is the need for sorting sign-dictionaries and 
>>> sign-vocabulary lists
>>>
>>> 2. There is the need for sorting for sign-liguistics characteristics 
>>> - for linguistic databases
>>>
>>> That is why Steve developed the flexible SignSpelling Column feature 
>>> in SignPuddle...So writers can choose the sequence they want to sort 
>>> with…
>>>
>>> In SignPuddle, when someone asks for a group of signs and they are 
>>> listed…what order are they listed? If the writer of the signs has 
>>> entered a SignSpelling Sequence for each sign, those signs are 
>>> placed first in the list and are sorted by the sequence stipulated 
>>> by the writer…any other signs in the list that do not have a 
>>> SignSpelling stipulated, are listed after, and are in a guessed 
>>> order …I think that is the way the software works ;-)
>>>
>>> Here is how I personally see sorting signs for dictionaries…I 
>>> started a 2010 book, but never finished it, but here is the 2008 
>>> booklet -
>>>
>>>
>>> SignSpelling Guidelines 2008
>>> http://www.signwriting.org/archive/docs6/sw0534-SignSpellingGuidelines-2008.pdf
>>>
>>> <mime-attachment.png>
>>>
>>>
>>> <mime-attachment.png>
>>> ________________________________________________
>>>
>>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>>
>>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>>>
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>>
>>
>> ________________________________________________
>>
>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>
>> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org 
>> <mailto:sutton at signwriting.org>
>>
>> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: 
>> sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu 
>> <mailto:sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu>
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-- 

email: duncanjonathan at yahoo.ca <mailto:duncanjonathan at yahoo.ca>
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SignWriter Studio <http://www.signwriterstudio.com/>


________________________________________________


SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION

Valerie Sutton
SignWriting List moderator
sutton at signwriting.org

Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu

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