Ordering Signs in Dictionaries

Thu Aug 14 02:47:44 UTC 2014

Hello,
sorting by the rotation of the hand may not be effective in LSQ because of directional signs. 

André Lemyre

Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 22:05:50 -0400
From: duncanjonathan at YAHOO.CA
Subject: Re: Ordering Signs in Dictionaries
To: SW-L at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU

    Hi Charles,

        I watched your talk again today.  I realized that what I call
    "Sign Sequence" you call "Sign Spelling".  I guess it is
    "SignSpelling Sequence".  So I didn't understand that the first
    time.  So now after this more attentive listening to your talk, I
    see that you definitely are using SignSpelling Sequence for all your
    entries and that you are doing them manually the same way Val
    suggested in the SignSpelling Guidelines.   

        Am I correct in my understanding that which symbols come first
    in the sorted list is different from the way SignPuddle is sorting? 

    Your sorting would be sorted by the

    1. First by symbol in the sign sequence's basegroup of the first
    hand in the SignSpelling Sequence

    2. What figure (See the individual chapters)?  I need more
      explanation about this one.

    3. The for each basegroup sort by fill

    4. In each fill sorting, sort by rotation ( but not
      distinguishing between right and left hands.  

      I see you number both from 1 to 8 in instead of numbering them all
      from 1 to 16)

    5. Location symbol. comes after hand symbol when comparing.

    From first to last 

    No Body - hand to hand, head, body 

    5.1 Location sorting on hand contact order doesn't seem to be
      defined yet

    5.2 Head location sorting

    5.3 Body body 

    Indicate the location of the body, placing the graphic in the left
    lane, the middle lane, or 

    right lane. - Need this explained I'm not understanding.

    Needs to have numbering for which comes first for body location

      6 - What is contact? No order, any can come first.

      7.7 - Finger bends (ie no order)?No order, any can come first.

      8 - Movement? Vertical, then Horizontal, then Arc - up / down, up
      / abaxo + rotation, then up / down bow 

      after / below + arc rotation, face bow, face bow + rotation

      Need to define which come first within the vertical, and which
        come first within the horizontal, etc.  Or just current
        default currently in ISWA2010

      Need to define movement symbols in other planes, etc.

      9 Timing.  Which comes first?

      10 Faces and posture.

      Not sure about this one, would like more explanation.

      Also you need to output a dictionary that has, 

      hand 

      spelling 

      sign 

      Portuguese 

      ASL 

      english 

      Quote

      Do you currently have any way of keeping all this information in
      Sign Puddle?

      SignWriter Studio can do 

      spelling

      sign-LIBRAS

      Portuguese

      English

      Source

      I was hoping to add a second SignLanguage to do a dictionary with
      two sign languages but I haven't programmed that yet.

      I am still working on finalizing the output for the dictionary. 
      So I am looking for your input whether you use it or not.

      Please fill me in where I am lacking and correct me where I am
      wrong.

      Regards,

      Jonathan

      On 8/12/2014 4:47 PM, Jonathan Duncan wrote:

      Hi Charles,

          I enjoyed your symposium “Ordering Signs in Dictionaries” http://www.signwriting.org/symposium/presentation0010.htmlgro

       I was wondering if Steve and Val had been able to find
      you a solution.  Val mentioned that she thought that Steve would
      have an easy way for you to do your sorting.

      I would like to implement a sorting algorithm for SignWriter
      Studio as I haven't implemented any yet and I am starting to
      produce a Honduran Sign Language dictionary.  

      I understood how you are doing the ordering comparing hand shapes,
      comparing rotations, comparing facings, comparing facial areas,
      etc.  I like it very much.

      A couple things I wanted to ask.

      For your algorithm to work properly does the sign sequence of a
      sign need to be filled out?  I am getting the impression that your
      sorting could sort dictionaries without the sign sequence, is this
      assumption correct?  Or would it sort signs according to the
      symbols in sign sequence?  It doesn't seem to take into account
      the order of the symbols in the sign sequence, is this correct?

      Also do you have another document comparing the other symbols like
      movement symbols, etc?  If so could you send it to me? 

      Thanks

      -- 

            email: duncanjonathan at yahoo.ca

                       joyoduncan at gmail.com

              Cel Honduras: (504)3141-1171

              Tel USA: (347)875-8442 

              Skype: yojoduncan

              SignWriter
                Studio

    -- 

          email: duncanjonathan at yahoo.ca

                     joyoduncan at gmail.com

            Cel Honduras: (504)3141-1171

            Tel USA: (347)875-8442 

            Skype: yojoduncan

            SignWriter Studio

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