[Sw-l] [SPAM] Re: Between floor and wall arm rotation

Sun Feb 6 14:32:08 UTC 2022

Hello List,

Yes this writing the arm rotation is implied by beginning and ending 
symbols, but not directly annotated in the sign.  The arm in the start 
position the back of the arm is up, and in the ending position the 
bottom of the arm is up.  From my point of view, there was an arm 
rotation but it is not needed for everyday writing as the hand symbols 
force you to do it anyways.

Jonathan

On 2/6/2022 7:28 AM, Carlos Cristian Libras wrote:
> Hello List,
> The moment I watched the video I understood that sign language readers 
> can easily see the written form and complete the sign. Like a spelling 
> agreement. As much as it is not 100% represented in writing. As many 
> signs in Brazil are made like this (we write in a way that Brazilian 
> readers can read easily but that a foreigner may have another 
> interpretation of the movement).
>
> After thinking about it, I reflected that if I were to describe the 
> movement exactly I would separate the signal in 2 beats, writing the 
> beginning of the movement and the end. But before I answered that, I 
> saw the rest of the discussion and realized that Valerie Sutton had 
> already shown exactly the format I thought:
>
> image.png
>
> I don't know of any current symbols that would simplify this. But I'm 
> looking forward to seeing Adam's response. Anyway, I believe that the 
> two solutions above already solve the problem, I see no reason to worry.
> I advise you to write long texts that use this sign, to see how it 
> will actually be in practice. Because it is very different to write a 
> sign for a dictionary, putting all the details than writing a personal 
> note text in which many details are obsolete, because what matters 
> most is the practicality and usefulness of writing.
>
> This is just an opinion.
>
> On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 3:27 AM Adam Frost <icemandeaf at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>     I think the discussion came about because there is a desire to
>     have a movement symbol that has arm rotation and arm traveling.
>     Now that I think of it, there are some symbols that do just that.
>     I’ll have to take a look into that tomorrow morning. :-)
>
>
>     Adam
>
>>     On Feb 5, 2022, at 9:42 PM, Valerie Sutton
>>     <sutton at signwriting.org> wrote:
>>
>>     SignWriting list
>>     February 5, 2022
>>
>>     And to answer your question, when we really are writing rotation
>>     symbols (movements that do not travel but just change palm
>>     facing), we do not have a diagonal plane version of the rotation
>>     symbols. There are only two planes to choose from for Rotation
>>     Symbols. The forearm is either parallel to the floor or parallel
>>     to the Wall - I have never seen yet a sign that is misunderstood
>>     because a diagonal forearm would change the meaning of the sign.
>>
>>     In this case this sign means “homogeneous" in English (in German
>>     “homogen”) and homogeneous in English means like a family or
>>     group that blends well together. The movements look a little like
>>     the sign for FAMILY in ASL, and although I know the meanings may
>>     be different, I think the curved traveling movement fits with the
>>     meaning of the sign, at least that is the way it feels to me.
>>
>>     There are always questions with Rotation Symbols and how to write
>>     them so feel free to keep asking questions -
>>
>>     Thanks so much for sharing.
>>
>>     Val ;-)
>>
>>     --------------
>>
>>>     On Feb 5, 2022, at 9:27 PM, Valerie Sutton
>>>     <sutton at SIGNWRITING.ORG> wrote:
>>>
>>>     SignWriting List
>>>     February 5, 2022
>>>
>>>     Hello SignWriting List, Uta and Adam,
>>>
>>>     Regarding this video:
>>>     https://sign2mint.de/entry/homogen/5750242766511595:730
>>>
>>>     I agree with you, Adam, that this is a general arm movement
>>>     because the arm movement TRAVELS. The hands travel from shoulder
>>>     level to “in front of the chest and lower” in the second
>>>     position. I would write it this way:
>>>
>>
>>     ________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>     SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>
>>     Valerie Sutton
>>     SignWriting List moderator
>>     sutton at signwriting.org
>>
>>     Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
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>>     <DGS_homogen1.png>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     Movements that travel are curves that truly move the hands from
>>>     one space to another.
>>>
>>>     Rotation symbols are movements that do NOT travel. The arm stays
>>>     in one place while the arm twists from one palm facing to
>>>     another, while staying in place.
>>>
>>>     So if I were reading the SignWriting with the rotation symbol in
>>>     this diagram, without seeing the video, I would think that the
>>>     plam facing changes at shoulder level. I would not know that it
>>>     traveled down lower, since it is a Rotation Symbol (which means
>>>     no traveling).
>>>
>>>     Sometimes small rotation symbols are placed on top of traveling
>>>     arrows - they are combined, because the writer doesn’t want to
>>>     write the second position but I prefer to write the second
>>>     position - at least for those who do not know the sign.
>>>
>>
>>     ________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>     SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>
>>     Valerie Sutton
>>     SignWriting List moderator
>>     sutton at signwriting.org
>>
>>     Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
>>     sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>>
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>>     <http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1>
>>     <Image.png>
>>>
>>>     ________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>     ________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>     SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>
>>     Valerie Sutton
>>     SignWriting List moderator
>>     sutton at signwriting.org
>>
>>     Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
>>     sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>>
>>     SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
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>
>     ________________________________________________
>
>     SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>
>     Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>
>     Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
>     sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>
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>
> ________________________________________________
>
> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>
> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>
> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
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________________________________________________

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Valerie Sutton
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