[Sw-l] The LIddell and Johnson Movement-Hold Model

Wed Jan 26 18:29:33 UTC 2022

here is the rest of my transcribing efforts so far ;-))

[image: grafik.png]


Am Mi., 26. Jan. 2022 um 19:21 Uhr schrieb Valerie Sutton <
sutton at signwriting.org>:

> SignWriting List
> January 26, 2022
>
> I love this answer Adam! I was wondering if you would mention the L&J
> model. I remember you studied with Bob Johnson. Thank you for diagramming
> everything here. We definitely could use more instruction on the details of
> using movement symbols and contact symbols in short and concise ways. Val
> ;-)
>
>  ------
>
> On Jan 26, 2022, at 9:52 AM, Adam Frost <icemandeaf at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
> I will be honest. I know the L&J Model very well and even studied under
> Bob Johnson, but I do not even consider it when I am writing signs when
> using SignWriting. I think you will find that most SignWriters don’t
> consider it even for those who do know it, which is not often the case that
> SignWriters know this model.
>
> Having said that, I will tell you what I see in the examples that you
> asked about:
>
> - Geschwindigkeit (speed):
> https://sign2mint.de/entry/Geschwindigkeit/5750242766511595:118
>
>
> I see this as HMHMHMH as there are three distinct movements. I agree that
> it is a reduplication of a unidirectional movement, making it (HMH)M(HMH),
> but the SignWriting that you have on this page would actually be
> interpreted as bidirectional because you have both arrows. If you exclude
> the middle arrow, then it would mean a double outward movement rather than
> a outward/backward/outward movement.
>
> The first is what was written on the page you sent, and the second is how
> I would have written it.
>
>
>
> - Default
> https://sign2mint.de/entry/Default/8088731661663380:55
>
>
> I also see this as a reduplication of unidirectional movement, so it has
> the same timing units as the previous example: (HMH)M(HMH). The main
> difference is that the final H in the unidirectional movements have contact
> in it where the previous example didn’t. This difference doesn’t have any
> affect on the timing units though.
>
> I see that you are using the tension symbol to mean that one of the hands
> doesn’t move. I guess that could be beneficial for linguistic analysis. I
> personally would just write two contact symbol rather than any downward
> movements here, but I can see why it might also be important for analysis.
>
>
>
> Impuls:
> https://sign2mint.de/entry/Impuls/5750242766511595:801
>
>
> This is a simple unidirectional movement: HMH. If this were a
> reduplication, it would look like the previous example, also with two
> contacts. The writing of this sign, however, doesn’t follow the position of
> contact rule, which basically says that the handshapes should be written as
> they appear when they contact and then any movement symbols be written
> around that.
>
> I generally wouldn’t even include the contact symbol here because it is
> clear by the writing, but it could be included if the writer felt it was
> important.
>
>  or
>
> Daten:
>
> https://sign2mint.de/entry/Daten/8088731661663380:40
>
>
> The way your video is done, I would say it was done as two unidirectional
> movements. So the timing units would be HMHMHMH, where the first HMH ends
> with a contact on the upper part of the hand, and the final HMH ends with a
> contact on the lower part of the hand.
>
> There is a possibility for this sign to be done with “less dramatic”
> movements, which I personally would see more people doing this type of sign
> as. In that case, it would be done as two holds. So the timing units would
> be HMH. I guess that could be the difference of having the movement arrows
> to the contact symbols vs only having the contact symbols if you were to
> compare it to SignWriting. I personally don’t see it changing the meaning
> of the signs when this happens, which is why I usually write the latter
> version as it means less symbols so it is a simpler reading.
>
> If I were to write this sign, I would write it this way:
>
>
> Although, the initial contact could be written if you would like:
>
>
>
> Adam
>
> On Jan 26, 2022, at 6:16 AM, Uta Meißner <uta.hielscher at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm interested to know if you guys think of the model when you're
> transcribing a gesture. I usually don't. But I think it might be a good
> idea to consider this model. Only, I have trouble determining the correct
> M-H syllable in some signs.
>
> For a common understanding there are examples:
>
> - Geschwindigkeit (speed):
> https://sign2mint.de/entry/Geschwindigkeit/5750242766511595:118
>
> This gesture contains a reduplicated movement -> M +.
> Do you see it the same way?
>
> - Default
> https://sign2mint.de/entry/Default/8088731661663380:55
>
> This gesture contains a reduplicated movement with hold -> MH +.
> Do you see it like this?
>
> Impuls:
> https://sign2mint.de/entry/Impuls/5750242766511595:801
>
> This gesture contains a simple movement with hold -> MH
>
> I'm not sure when a hold is when there is a simple contact (*) or when the
> movement is stopped (~).
>
> So, now I come to a problem:
> Which syllable has this sign?  HMH ? or MH +
> https://sign2mint.de/entry/Daten/8088731661663380:40
>
> Which syllable has this sign?
>
> HMH
> or
>
> MH + but in different places
>
>
> or this signwriting. HMH.
>
> Which sign writing do you prefer. Or would you write the sign differently.
>
> I can't tell when the gesture starts. When the right hand already arrives
> at the left hand or before.
> Is it possible to determine this for sure using The LIddell and Johnson
> Movement-Hold Model?
>
> It is important to me that the gesture can be found safely by most users
> via signsearch.
>
> What movement symbols would you choose:
> There are 5 different movement tracks in signsearch:
> - straight motion trace
> - wavy motion trace
> - angular motion trace
> - circular motion track
> - spiral motion track
>
> Which sign writing do you prefer. Or would you write the sign differently.
>
> It is important to me that the sign can be found via signsearch.
>
> What movement symbols would you choose:
> There are 5 different motion traces in signsearch:
> - straight motion trace
> - wavy motion trace
> - angular motion trace
> - circular motion track
> - spiral motion track
>
>
> It is important to me that the sign search works well, that a searched
> sign is found with only a few selected symbols. And this is really the case
> with many signs. :) We are very proud of this, but we want to make it even
> better. :)
>
> I am looking forward to your knowledge and experience. :)
>
> Best regards
> and a nice day to all of you
>
>
> ________________________________________________
>
> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>
> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>
> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>
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>
>
> ________________________________________________
>
> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>
> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>
> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>
> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
>
> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
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>
>
> ________________________________________________
>
> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>
> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>
> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>
> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
> http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
>
> Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
> http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1
>

________________________________________________


SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION

Valerie Sutton
SignWriting List moderator
sutton at signwriting.org

Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu

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