[Sw-l] Revision 09 for draft-slevinski-formal-signwriting

Sun Jan 30 19:57:13 UTC 2022

Dear Adam,

Thank you very much for your answer.

We use "~" for left (rezessive) passiv hand. Yes. Our own definition. And I
don't know, whether it is a good idea.

Tell Adam, why is it important to mark a hand as a classification?

With the names, I still understand why it is for when there is a long line
underneath. Do you handle it that way?

But why with classification? I also do not mark for phonetic words that it
is an adjective, verb or noun.
And I wonder if it's always clear if it's a classification. I have to admit
that I didn't deal with classification so much.

Thank you in advance for your explanations. They always help a lot to
understand sign writing and to improve it further.

I would like to briefly report on my observation with the sign search:

- Hand shape is chosen first
- ressesiv hand Does not move
- Both hands move together
- contact

And really last but not least the movements. Here, many find it difficult
to choose the right movement.
I'm really glad that there are 2-hand symbols.

Best regards Uta

Adam Frost <icemandeaf at gmail.com> schrieb am So., 30. Jan. 2022, 20:16:

> I am surprised and love the idea of the null symbol being S00000. 😊 Then
> I won’t have to use one of the “never used” S10006 symbol in its place for
> the sorting that I have been doing. 😁
>
> Uta, I have really been thinking about your issue for searching different
> types of 2-handed usage, such as no movement, same movement, and opposite
> movement for the recessive hand. While the timing symbols do work well for
> that and can be used as a convention for those purposes, I don’t find
> myself using them in my typical writing. (Val did find me using “~” for a
> couple dictionary entires, though. Ha! It was a test for entires of what
> most people call classifiers, which I think will work for my purposes.)
>
> Having said that, I think you using “~” to mean the second hand stays in
> place is fine. You can make that a rule for your purposes that should
> always be followed.
>
> Another idea might be using searches to find those signs instead of a new
> symbol. I haven’t really gotten into the new searching of OR search query
> as I need to update to the core modules that Steve created, but it did get
> me thinking about how using a NOT search query might make it possible to
> search for signs that don’t include left hand (white arrowhead) or unit
> movement (general arrowhead) arrows. That could be used to find the
> 2-handed signs where the recessive hand doesn’t move. Of course the
> search would have to make sure it doesn’t include 1-handed signs in some
> fashion for it to work. But if this were possible, it could make it so you
> don’t have to have any special symbol for the type of signs you want to be
> found. The same method of searching could also be used for finding if the
> movements are the same or opposite for both hands. Just a thought.
>
>
> Adam
>
> On Jan 30, 2022, at 9:30 AM, Uta Meißner <uta.hielscher at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I have a wish for further enlargement: 🙂 🙂
>
> I think it's great that there are symbols the dynamics of the two hands.
> At first I thought why more symbols. They don't bring more information. But
> now, I don't look so closely at where the arrowheads are. No, this magic
> ")" is a very big help.
>
> I am interested in the story of the introduction of dynamic-symbols for
> 2-hand gestures. 🙂
>
> And why s is not a symbol for ressesive hand, which is one's rests (don't
> move).
>
> I need this. and this Symbol should be a little point. this should
> remember on a nail. 🙂 Very simple.
>
> What do you think?
> and you, Adam, the inventor of null-Symbol 🙂
>
> Best regards
> Uta
>
>
>
>
> Uta Meißner <uta.hielscher at gmail.com> schrieb am So., 30. Jan. 2022,
> 18:12:
>
>> Hi Stephen,
>>
>> A question of understanding:
>>
>> A maximum of 2 hand shapes may be entered per character, so that there is
>> one dominant and one rezessiv hand.
>>
>> When writing a sign script, I have to make sure that the dominant hand is
>> entered first, then the recessive hand. Only by the order alone hands are
>> recognized as either dominant or recessive hand. Correct?
>>
>> Sometimes you have to enter end-hand shape, because otherwise it is not
>> clear what the end-hand shape looks like.
>>
>> I.e. when writing, you always have to consciously enter the zero symbol
>> if it is a one-hand gesture. The null symbol is not entered automatically,
>> right?
>>
>> The fact that there is a zero symbol is definitely great for the sign
>> search.
>> 🙂
>>
>> But I need your creative minds on how to incorporate the zero symbol into
>> the sign search. Normally, a selected symbol is always entered in the
>> search field. Only that there is no picture for it, you can not click on it
>> and see the feedback in the search field. 🙈
>>
>> Sign2mint.de has a toggle to choose between Iswa and drawing. For
>> drawing, it is easy, a new image can be created with just one hand.
>>
>> Best regards!
>> Uta
>>
>>
>>
>> Stephen Slevinski <slevin at signpuddle.net> schrieb am So., 30. Jan. 2022,
>> 17:26:
>>
>>> Hi SignWriting List,
>>>
>>> Today I posted a new revision of the internet draft:
>>> draft-slevinski-formal-signwriting.
>>> It includes two changes.
>>>
>>> First, I've removed part of the styling string for individual symbol
>>> zoom and offset.
>>> When I first added this feature, I thought it was a good idea.
>>> However, this feature creates problems and complicates simple processing.
>>> Last month I finally realized why it was such a problem.
>>> I couldn't find any workable solutions, so I decided to remove it.
>>> I will be updating the available software packages in the near future.
>>> One step back, two steps forward.
>>>
>>> Second, I've added a proposal for a new "null symbol".
>>> This was inspired by discussions with Adam Frost and his ideas about
>>> sorting.
>>> Talking with Val, this is a long standing issue.
>>> I'm still thinking through the issue, but I think this is a good fix.
>>> You can read more about it here:
>>>
>>> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-slevinski-formal-signwriting-09.html#name-proposed-null-symbol
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> -Steve
>>>
>>> ________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>>>
>>> Valerie Sutton
>>> SignWriting List moderator
>>> sutton at signwriting.org
>>>
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>> ________________________________________________
>
> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>
> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>
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>
> ________________________________________________
>
> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
>
> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
>
> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
>
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________________________________________________

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