[Sw-l] How do you write SW as fast as script writing for spoken languages?

[Valerie Sutton]

SignWriting List
March 19, 2022

You are a good friend, André - thank you. I thought of you last Sunday, when we had such a fun reunion of DAC members - and I remembered that you and your family came to visit here in my home years ago - what year was that? And I hope we can visit in person again sometime in the future - maybe through a special visit on Zoom or Skype? we’ve known each other a long time - my best wishes to your family - please tell them “hello” for me!

Val ;-)

-------------

> On Mar 19, 2022, at 4:49 PM, André Thibeault <atg at VIDEOTRON.CA> wrote:
> 
> Hi Val and everyone,
> 
> Yes, I remember that I participated in the online handwriting course. But,
> it was a very short time because of your health problem. I was happy that
> you took good care of yourself.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> André

------------
> 
> Le 22-03-19 18:03, « Valerie Sutton » <sutton at SIGNWRITING.ORG> a écrit :
> 
>> SignWriting List
>> March 19, 2022
>> 
>> Old course onlineŠyears agoŠ we even had homework that I posted -
>> everyone did real wellŠ smile...
>> 
>> Write SignWriting by Hand
>> https://www.signwriting.org/lessons/cursive/cursive.html
>> 
>> 
>> -----------
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 19, 2022, at 12:10 PM, Valerie Sutton <sutton at SIGNWRITING.ORG>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Adamąs video and slides on SW Handwriting in 2014:
>>> 
>>> https://www.signwriting.org/symposium/presentation0003.html#video
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Mar 19, 2022, at 11:01 AM, Valerie Sutton <sutton at SIGNWRITING.ORG>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> SignWriting List
>>>> March 19, 2022
>>>> 
>>>> Hello SignWriting List, Sutthikhun, Carlos, AnnaGrace and Adam,
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you for this discussion on SignWriting Shorthand and
>>>> HandwritingŠ. letąs keep talking...
>>>> 
>>>> Adam, and all of you, are the next generation of handwritersŠ it needs
>>>> to be based on the way people are writing SignWriting Printing, that is
>>>> used for publishing today Šso that there is a clear connection with
>>>> SignWriting Printing, Handwriting and Shorthand of this era - 2022 and
>>>> forward...
>>>> 
>>>> Meanwhile, since you mentioned the old eraŠ.from an historical
>>>> perspective, we certainly did have a successful Shorthand back in the
>>>> 1980s. It was based on the SignWriting Printing of that era, which was
>>>> written with a full stick figure, Receptive, and written horizontally.
>>>> 
>>>> I will be happy to post the 1980ąs books, if it would be useful. But I
>>>> donąt want to confuse people eitherŠ
>>>> 
>>>> To explain, we took shorthand notes of complete classes at CSUN
>>>> (California State University of Northridge), based on the interpreters
>>>> who were signing the classes for Deaf participants, and then later the
>>>> shorthand notetakers re-wrote the shorthand notes for the Deaf
>>>> participants so they would have something to refer to from the class -
>>>> the SW shorthand notes were written at speed while the interpreter was
>>>> signing so they were oftentimes a little messy so then the new notes
>>>> that were re-written, were in clearer SignWriting for the reader.
>>>> 
>>>> But then I learned from a linguist who worked with our DAC (Deaf
>>>> Action Committee), Dr. Karen van Hoek, that Karen used the Shorthand
>>>> system to write for daily use for herself and her notes and she avoided
>>>> the formal SignWriting for her own personal notetaking. I was really
>>>> happy about that of course -
>>>> 
>>>> So why are we not using the 1980ąs Shorthand today? Because the DAC
>>>> asked for important changes to SignWriting in the late 1980s:
>>>> 
>>>> some of the changes were...
>>>> 
>>>> 1. Receptive changed to Expressive
>>>> 
>>>> 2. Writing horizontally changed to writing in vertical columns
>>>> 
>>>> 3. Some hand symbols changed - and the list goes on with the changesŠ
>>>> 
>>>> So here is my question for you all -
>>>> 
>>>> If I post the old SignWriting Shorthand materials, will it confuse
>>>> your modern development of SignWriting Handwriting and Shorthand?
>>>> 
>>>> It could be beneficial in some ways too - just as long as you all
>>>> realize how long ago this wasŠ and it is really meant for the history
>>>> archives.
>>>> 
>>>> Adam, how do you feel about this? Should I post the 1980ąs Shorthand
>>>> book?
>>>> 
>>>> If we had a new Shorthand book side by side with it, that might make
>>>> it clear, the differencesŠ hmmmŠ. another project! ;-)
>>>> 
>>>> Val ;-)
>>>> 
>>>> ________________
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 19, 2022, at 9:26 AM, Adam Frost <icemandeaf at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> This has always been an interesting discussion for me. :-)
>>>>> 
>>>>> I never really learned SignWriting shorthand as it was designed and
>>>>> used originally. I did talk about it with Valerie quite extensively,
>>>>> though. She had told me that the handbook you are referring to needed
>>>>> to be updated if it were to be used because the system has gone
>>>>> through a lot of changes since it has been in use. That is probably
>>>>> why it isnąt available for download.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Carlos sent you a link to a presentation that I did on this topic. It
>>>>> is a good place to start, but even my handwriting has changed since
>>>>> then since it is coming up on 10 years since. Wow! I guess I should
>>>>> look at how I handwrite now and document it somehow. I know that there
>>>>> are a lot of symbol changes for faster writing, for one.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have also been doing a lot of dictionary sorting lately so I have
>>>>> been writing by SignSpellingSequence. I have often wondered if it were
>>>>> to become established and commonly used if inputing solely by
>>>>> SignSpellingSequence would be a fast way to write as well. It makes it
>>>>> easy for writing, but makes reading very difficult as it loses all
>>>>> visual aspect of SignWriting, so I am not so sure if it is a good
>>>>> thing to consider. Ha!
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have also been testing out various approaches to make it so I can
>>>>> write fewer symbols, including the use of timing symbols in a new way,
>>>>> but I havenąt really gotten to a place where I am satisfied that it
>>>>> works well. I know that I mentioned it in the presentation I gave in
>>>>> 2014 and it has been picked up by others around the world, but I
>>>>> havenąt really used it much myself.
>>>>> 
>>>>> <namesign.png>
>>>>> Adam
>>>> 
>>>> _______________
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Mar 19, 2022, at 2:36 AM, Sutthikhun Phaengphongsai
>>>>>> <suttikunep at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thank you for your answer and the link you provided, Carlos!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sutthikhun
>>>> 
>>>> _______________
>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Fri, 18 Mar 2022 at 23:56, Ms. AnnaGrace
>>>>>> <msannagrace20 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I was thinking about shorthand too!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thank you, Carlos, for the link. :-)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> AnnaGrace
>>>> 
>>>> _______________
>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 12:19 PM Carlos Cristian Libras
>>>>>> <carloscristianlibras at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> I make daily use of SW in shorthand.
>>>>>> I took a part of Adam presentation from the link -
>>>>>> https://www.signwriting.org/symposium/presentation0003.html#abstract
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Another friend from Ethiopia also made some cursive hand shapes,
>>>>>> which I copied. Some forms I invented myself to facilitate my
>>>>>> registration.
>>>>>> Last month I did a translation that I will record a video in ASL and
>>>>>> before recording I wrote everything with SW shorthand, and then I
>>>>>> recorded it. So I use it daily, and I know many others around the
>>>>>> world use it too.
>>>>>> 
>>>> __________________
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 10:30 AM Sutthikhun Phaengphongsai
>>>>>> <suttikunep at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi everyone in SW List! Let me ask you something ‹
>>>>>>    € Is SW shorthand still in use nowadays? I remember SW used to
>>>>>> have a handbook for writing shorthand as well, unfortunately I can't
>>>>>> find a link to download it.
>>>>>>    € Do you usually apply SW shorthand in your writing? If not, how
>>>>>> do you write as fast as script writing for spoken languages? Writing
>>>>>> with SW, in my opinion, is a hybrid between sketching and writing,
>>>>>> which makes it too slow to write if you want to take quick notes.
>>>>>> Thank you ;)
>>>>>> Sutthikhun
>>> 

________________________________________________


SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION

Valerie Sutton
SignWriting List moderator
sutton at signwriting.org

Post Messages to the SignWriting List:
sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu

SignWriting List Archives & Home Page
http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist

Join, Leave or Change How You Receive SW List Messages
http://listserv.valenciacollege.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SW-L&A=1