[Sw-l] What better way to write sign with more moves and handshapes

Thu May 5 19:57:36 UTC 2022

Hi Valerie,

I was very happy with your comments. I understand that you proposed that
the writer have more options and so not limit him with rules. I would be
very happy to see signs in ASL along these lines. 😃

Regarding the difference in the number of circles shown in examples 3 and
4, you are right, example 4 has only one circle, it was made with the aim
of simplifying, the use of one or two circles does not change the semantics
of the sign. 😉

Thank you very much for the valuable considerations Valerie!

Hugs!

Rubens Almeida

Em qui., 5 de mai. de 2022 às 03:06, Valerie Sutton <sutton at signwriting.org>
escreveu:

> SignWriting List
> May 4, 2022
>
> Hello Rubens, and Adam -
>
> Thank you for your message and question, Rubens. I just read your message
> now. I am sorry for my delay. These are very interesting examples. I
> realize Adam has already answered in detail.
>
> Adam is of course correct, that the feeling, when writing the signs in two
> parts, one above the other, is that they are compound signs. If the two
> parts are a little closer to each other it will be understood as a compound
> sign, just as Adam said. But when you put it all together like your second
> examples, it feels like the two parts are blending or flowing into one
> sign… I know I have written such signs in both ways at different times and
> we have never had a rule. It is more accurately read when the two parts are
> clearly separated, but writing it as one flowing sign has the advantage of
> showing how the compound sign has now become one sign…like all languages
> that incorporate compounds into one word over time.
>
> So for me it was always a “feeling” or intuitive hunch that it was better
> to write the sign one way or the other. I was afraid to limit the writer
> into a rule…
>
> There are signs like this too, in ASL and other sign languages… when I run
> across one I will post it ;-)
>
> I am curious about your Example 3 and 4 - they do not seem to have the
> same amount of circles -
>
> Val ;-)
>
> --------------
>
>
>
> On May 3, 2022, at 5:17 PM, Adam Frost <icemandeaf at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
> Hello Rubens,
>
> A very good question. I don’t think there is any “standard” guideline
> about how to write these cases. It is really what is the most readable to
> those who use the language.
>
> Since I am not native to Libras, I can’t give you a definite answer for
> both spelling. However, I can give you some help regardless as a native
> signer. :-)
>
> When I personally face these sort of issues, I ask myself if the sign is a
> compound, which means there are two separate parts to the sign as if they
> had their own separate meaning. The English words for audiovisual and
> SIgnWriting are compounds (audio + visual and Sign + Writing). So with that
> in mind, when I look at the sign for “audiovisual” in your video, I get the
> feeling there are two parts. Because of that, I would pick the first
> example because it is written to show the separation. (Although I would
> reduce the gap between so they aren’t read as separate words.)
>
>
>
> Of course, since I am not a native Libras signer – my Libras is minimum at
> most – my interpretation could be wrong and there isn’t a compound in two
> signs here. If that were the case, the second spelling might be better.
> However, I would suggest a minor change in spelling since I didn’t see an
> inward traveling movement between the first and second handshape like there
> was to the last handshape. (I placed the handshape above, but it could also
> be placed next to as well.)
>
>
>
> The same could be said for the Libras sign for SignWriting. The first
> example is written as if it is a compound, while the second spelling is
> written as if it were one sign. To me as a non-native Libras signer, I
> don’t see that sign as a compound and would probably use the second
> spelling. But maybe it is a compound and should be written as in the first
> spelling.
>
>
>
>
> Adam
>
> On May 3, 2022, at 4:23 PM, Profo Rubens Almeida <
> rubens.escritadesinais at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
> Hello everyone on the SignWriting List,
>
>
> Recently there was a question that we talked about in the SignWriting
> Brasil WhatsApp group regarding how to write a sign that uses more
> movements and more than one handshape. The example was the audiovisual
> spelling in Libras. There was a member of the group that did the direct
> writing (term I use for writing that is not done and 2 steps), however, I
> found the writing to be confusing, difficult to read, so I suggested
> writing in 2 steps (according to example (1) of the attached video) in
> order to facilitate reading.
>
> I learned from Adam that this is the best option in these cases, when some
> time ago I introduced him to the SignWriting script used in Libras with two
> writing possibilities. Adam explained that the writing (from example 3 in
> the attached video) was more readable.
>
> My question is how can I understand when I can use direct writing in order
> to save graphemes and spaces when writing signs with more movements and
> more than one handshape, and also where can I find more guidelines,
> references to publications that clarify this question .
>
> Thank you in advance for everyone's attention and support!
>
> Here's a link to the video on YouTube:
>
> https://youtu.be/IxD7Kfc2uow
>
>
>
>
> Hugs!
>
> Rubens Almeida
>
>
>  Questionamento no SignWriting List.mp4
>
>
> --
>
>
> ________________________________________________
>
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>
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>
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--

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