[Lingtyp] Query: syllable-reversing ludlings
gil at shh.mpg.de
Sun May 17 12:59:17 EDT 2020
Thanks, this is very helpful. I'm curious about one thing though. In
the examples that you cited, the mora happens to correspond to a
syllable, so it is not possible to tell whether it is moras or syllables
that are being reversed. But there are lots of other words where the
mora is less than a complete syllable — what happens in such words?
On 17/05/2020 19:35, Hiroto Uchihara wrote:
> Dear David,
> Japanese Zuu-jaa go does this, although I don't use this ludling so I
> don't have an intuition (I believe it became obsolete in the 90's). It
> looks like tri-moraic words follow the pattern 123 > 231 (Ito,
> Kitagawa & Mester 1996), such as pi.a.no <http://pi.a.no> 'piano' >
> ya.no.pi, shi.ka.ke <http://shi.ka.ke> 'trick' > ka.ke.shi, ma.zú.i
> 'tastes bad' > zu.i.ma <http://zu.i.ma>, ku.su.ri 'drug' > su.ri.ku.
> It appears that the location of the pitch accent doesn't matter:
> 'tastes bad' have accent on the penultimate mora while others are
> I hope this helps.
> Ito, Junko, Yoshihisa Kitagawa & Armin Mester. 1996. Prosodic
> faithfulness and correspondence: evidence from Japanese argot. Journal
> of East Asian Linguistics 5.3: 217-294.
> El dom., 17 de may. de 2020 a la(s) 11:03, David Gil (gil at shh.mpg.de
> <mailto:gil at shh.mpg.de>) escribió:
> Dear all,
> Ludlings (aka play languages or secret languages) are often
> constructed by reversing the order of syllables in a word.Using
> numerals to denote syllables, 12 > 21.But what happens when there
> are three (or more) syllables in the word?For tri-syllabic words,
> the two most common outcomes are
> (a) 123 > 312
> (b) 123 > 231
> The Riau Indonesian ludling I have written about has the (a)
> pattern, eg. /bahasa > sabaha/. But a friend of mine in Papua has
> recently started writing to me in a ludling using the (b) pattern,
> e.g. /bahasa > hasaba/.Which got me curious.According to
> Wikipedia, the French ludling /verlan/ may use either option, e.g.
> /cigarette/ > /restiga/ or /garetsi/.
> I would appreciate any information you might be able to provide
> with regard to syllable-reversing ludlings of this kind that you
> might be familiar with in other languages.Specifically, I would
> like to know:
> (1) which pattern is followed in tri-syllabic words: (a), (b), or
> perhaps other?
> (2) what is the location of word-stress in the language?
> The motivation behind the second question is that I have a hunch
> that the difference between the ludlings in closely related Riau
> Indonesian and Papuan Malay might be due to their different stress
> patterns — a hypothesis that is easily tested by looking at a
> handful of other languages.
> David Gil
> Senior Scientist (Associate)
> Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
> Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
> Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
> Email:gil at shh.mpg.de <mailto:gil at shh.mpg.de>
> Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-556825895
> Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091
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> Dr. Hiroto Uchihara
> Seminario de Lenguas Indígenas
> Instituto de Investigaciones Filológicas
> Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
> Circuito Mario de la Cueva
> Ciudad Universitaria, 04510, Ciudad de México.
> Tel. Seminario:(+52)-(55)-5622-7489
> Office: (+52)-(55)-5622-7250, Ext. 49223
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
Email: gil at shh.mpg.de
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-556825895
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091
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