[Lingtyp] Query: syllable-reversing ludlings

David Gil gil at shh.mpg.de
Sun May 17 12:59:17 EDT 2020


Dear Hiroto,

Thanks, this is very helpful. I'm curious about one thing though.  In 
the examples that you cited, the mora happens to correspond to a 
syllable, so it is not possible to tell whether it is moras or syllables 
that are being reversed.  But there are lots of other words where the 
mora is less than a complete syllable — what happens in such words?

Best wishes,

David


On 17/05/2020 19:35, Hiroto Uchihara wrote:
> Dear David,
>
> Japanese Zuu-jaa go does this, although I don't use this ludling so I 
> don't have an intuition (I believe it became obsolete in the 90's). It 
> looks like tri-moraic words follow the pattern 123 > 231 (Ito, 
> Kitagawa & Mester 1996), such as pi.a.no <http://pi.a.no> 'piano' > 
> ya.no.pi, shi.ka.ke <http://shi.ka.ke> 'trick' > ka.ke.shi, ma.zú.i 
> 'tastes bad' > zu.i.ma <http://zu.i.ma>, ku.su.ri 'drug' > su.ri.ku. 
> It appears that the location of the pitch accent doesn't matter: 
> 'tastes bad' have accent on the penultimate mora while others are 
> unaccented.
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> Reference:
> Ito, Junko, Yoshihisa Kitagawa & Armin Mester. 1996. Prosodic 
> faithfulness and correspondence: evidence from Japanese argot. Journal 
> of East Asian Linguistics 5.3: 217-294.
>
> Hiroto
>
> El dom., 17 de may. de 2020 a la(s) 11:03, David Gil (gil at shh.mpg.de 
> <mailto:gil at shh.mpg.de>) escribió:
>
>     Dear all,
>
>     Ludlings (aka play languages or secret languages) are often
>     constructed by reversing the order of syllables in a word.Using
>     numerals to denote syllables, 12 > 21.But what happens when there
>     are three (or more) syllables in the word?For tri-syllabic words,
>     the two most common outcomes are
>
>     (a) 123 > 312
>
>     (b) 123 > 231
>
>     The Riau Indonesian ludling I have written about has the (a)
>     pattern, eg. /bahasa > sabaha/. But a friend of mine in Papua has
>     recently started writing to me in a ludling using the (b) pattern,
>     e.g. /bahasa > hasaba/.Which got me curious.According to
>     Wikipedia, the French ludling /verlan/ may use either option, e.g.
>     /cigarette/ > /restiga/ or /garetsi/.
>
>     I would appreciate any information you might be able to provide
>     with regard to syllable-reversing ludlings of this kind that you
>     might be familiar with in other languages.Specifically, I would
>     like to know:
>
>     (1) which pattern is followed in tri-syllabic words: (a), (b), or
>     perhaps other?
>
>     (2) what is the location of word-stress in the language?
>
>     The motivation behind the second question is that I have a hunch
>     that the difference between the ludlings in closely related Riau
>     Indonesian and Papuan Malay might be due to their different stress
>     patterns — a hypothesis that is easily tested by looking at a
>     handful of other languages.
>
>     Thanks,
>
>     David
>
>     -- 
>     David Gil
>       
>     Senior Scientist (Associate)
>     Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
>     Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
>     Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
>       
>     Email:gil at shh.mpg.de  <mailto:gil at shh.mpg.de>
>     Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-556825895
>     Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091
>
>     _______________________________________________
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>
>
> -- 
> Dr. Hiroto Uchihara
> https://sites.google.com/view/hiroto-uchihara/home?authuser=0
> Seminario de Lenguas Indígenas
> Instituto de Investigaciones Filológicas
> Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
> Circuito Mario de la Cueva
> Ciudad Universitaria, 04510, Ciudad de México.
> Tel. Seminario:(+52)-(55)-5622-7489
> Office: (+52)-(55)-5622-7250, Ext. 49223

-- 
David Gil
  
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
  
Email: gil at shh.mpg.de
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-556825895
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091

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