LL-L "Traditions" 2007.06.02 (02) [A/D/E/S/V]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L  -  27 May 2007 - Volume 02

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From: Roland Desnerck  <desnerck.roland at skynet.be>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.06.01 (01) [E]

Beste Lowlanders,
Eén van de Nederlandse woorden voor penis is "piemel". In het Oostends zijn
er vele woorden, o.m. pulle, furrel, kalle, sjarrel, tuute, lulle,
pieseloene...
Voor meisjes ook vele woorden, waaronder "piepaljoentsje" (wat ook het
Oostends is voor onze-lieve-heersbeestje), "miezemotsje", "kweeba",
"trutte", "miezjolle" ...
Een "piepaljoene" nam men oip de hand en liet men kruipen tot de vingertop;
als het wegvloog uitte men een wens. Het liedje dat men er bij zong was:
piepaljoentsje tiederiederoentsje,
bloksje stoksje,
vliegt up Uuze-lieven-Haire ze kêseboom (kerselaar);
of ook:
piepaljoene tiederiederoene
bloksje stoksje
vliegd overol,
vliegd over Uuze-lieven-Hirtsje
ze kérkhovvetsje ...
en er zijn  nog varianten ...

Toetnoasteki
Roland Desnerck uut Osténde in West-Vlaanderen

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Traditions

Tere, Mari!

Our Roland cross-posted the above text.  Most of it was in response to your
question about ladybirds/ladybugs being sung to. I don't know if you can
read Dutch and Western Flemish, so I'll take a stab at giving you the gist
of the relevant stuff.

In Western Flemish of Ostend, a name for ladybug is piepaljoene.

You allow a ladybug to crawl onto the tip of a finger and then let it fly
away, and at that time you make a wish and sing:

piepaljoentsje tiederiederoentsje,
bloksje stoksje,
vliegt up Uuze-lieven-Haire ze kêseboom (kerselaar);
of ook:
piepaljoene tiederiederoene
bloksje stoksje
vliegd overol,
vliegd over Uuze-lieven-Hirtsje
ze kérkhovvetsje ...
en er zijn  nog varianten ...

Some of the words appear to be "nonsense" but evocative.

Ladybug {"time rider ..."?},
Blocks, stocks (sticks)
Flies onto Our Dear Lord's cherry-tree ...

or

Ladybug {"time rider ..."?},
Blocks, stocks (sticks),
Flies everywhere,
Flies across Our Dear Lord's
Churchyard.

Please bear in mind that in many Continental Lowlands language varieties and
also in German there are references to The Lord and to the Virgin Mary in
the names for ladybugs.

Please also look at the archive for more references to ladybugs. While most
of it is etymological, it seems to provide clues about the tradition.

***

LL-L "Etymology" 2002.05.12 (03) [E/LS]

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

...

Oh, yes, and then there's the largely unexplored world of Lowlandic
zoological names ...  Take another type of bug, the ladybug (~
ladybird), for instance.  In Dutch it is _lieveheersbeestje_ ("Dear

Lord's critter"), and in Low Saxon it has similar fancy names, such as
_Heergottskoh_ ~ _Herrgottskoh_ ("The Lord's cow"), _Sünnenkind_ ("sun
child"), _Sünnenküken_ ("sun chick"), _Maanküken_ ("moon chick") and

_Maankalf_ ("moon calf")!

...

LL-L "Etymology" 2002.05.12 (05) [E/German]

From: Andrys Onsman <Andrys.Onsman at CeLTS.monash.edu.au>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.05.12 (03) [E/LS]

In Westerlauwers Frisian a ladybird is an ingeltsje - a little angel. In
't Bildt, the small reclaimed area in the very north of Fryslan where I
spent a lot of my early childhood, I seem to recall it was called
something else, but I can't remember what. (Bildts is quite different to
W.Frisian.) Does anyone know?
...

LL-L "Etymology" 2002.05.13 (02) [A/E/LS/S]

From: "Elsie Zinsser" <ezinsser at simpross.co.za>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.05.12 (06) [A]

Hallo almal,

In sy skrywe verwys Ron na die 'ladybird' wat onder andere in Frans
_bête à bon Dieu_,
in Laag Sorbies _boz^e sl/ónc^ko_ en in Laag Saksies _Herrgottskoh_
genoem word.

In Afrikaans praat ons van die "liewe Here besie". Dis nou vir die
kewertjie met die kolletjies lyfie en die rede dat ek vir 20 jaar nie
meer gif op my plante spuit nie, maar liewer  'n konkoksie van tabak,
olie en water kook en dit op my sitrusbome as teenmiddel spuit.

From: "Marco Evenhuis" <evenhuis at zeelandnet.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.05.12 (05) [E/German]

In my dialect of Zeêuws/Zeelandic, a ladybird is called
_papoenebeêstje_.
Other dialects of Zeelandic have forms like _pimpampoentje_,

From: "W!M" <wkv at home.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.05.12 (06) [E]

Hi,
There are also bugs and beetles called with the word  "haantjes"
"haante" as
part of their name. In Dutch. (The male part of the chicken family...)
_kapoenebeêstje_ and _pepoendertje_.

From: Sandy Fleming [sandy at scotstext.org]
Subject: "Etymology"

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Etymology
>
> I looked up 'ladybird' in _Chambers Concise English-Scots Dictionary_
> and came up with some really interesting ones too:
>
> (1) leddy launners
>     (_leddy_ 'lady' -- What is _launners_? "Landers"?)

I'm familiar with this from the nursery rhyme:

Leddy, Leddy Landers,
Leddy, Leddy Landers,
Tak up yer coats aboot yer heid,
An flee awa tae Flanders.

landers: laundry-woman
heid: head
flee awa: fly away

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

<...>

Yiddish has _moyshe rabeynes kiele_ ("little cow of Moses, our
Teacher/Master").  My theory is that it is derived from Russian _boz^"ja
korovka_ "God's (little) cow" or a related language, or that it goes
back to pre-eastward-migration times (cf. Low Saxon _Heergottskoh_ ~
_Herrgottskoh_ ("The Lord's cow")), and "Moses, our Master" is a
replacement for "God/Lord" (whose name cannot be mentioned in Judaism,
the word "God" itself having become taboo and being written "G..d" etc.
in orthodox circles).

...

LL-L "Etymology" 2005.07.07 (03) [E]

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

<...>

Low Saxon words for the same:

maankalv (<Maankalf> "moon calf")
maandkalv (<Maandkalf> "moon calf")
sünne(n)-kuyken (<Sünn(e(n))küken> "sun chick")
sünne(n)-kükken (<Sünn(e(n))kücken> "sun chick")
sünne(n)-küksken (<Sünn(e(n))kücksken> "sun chick")
sünnen-kever (<Sünn(en)käver> "sun bug/beetle")
sünnen-worm (<Sünn(en)worm> "sun worm")
sünnen-kou (<Sünn(en)koh> "sun cow")
sünnen-peyrd (<Sünn(en)peerd>, <Sünnenpierd> "sun horse")
sünnen-schyner (<Sünn(en)schiener> "sunshiner")
maryk (<Mariek> "lil' Mary'")*

* cf. German _Marienkäfer_ ("Mary('s) bug/beetle") for the same.

...

LL-L "Literature" 2005.07.09 (02) [E]

From: Tom Mc Rae <t.mcrae at uq.net.au>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.07.08 (02) [E]


On 09/07/2005, at 4:26 AM, Elsie Zinsser <ezinsser at icon.co.za> wrote:

> Ben, a ladybird is a kind of round and red little bug looking like a
> button and it has spots.
> I love them in my garden (especially on the lemons and oranges)
> because
> they destroy aphids.
>
As an entomologist Im must sat there's more to members of the Family
Coccinellidae than this.
Colour varies in species from yellow to orange to red and spots vary.
Imagine if your name was Coccinella septempunctatum. :-)
While some are, as Elsie says, of great benefit as predators others
are major pests of commercial plants.
I recall the old rhyme.

"Ladybird ladybird fly away home,
Your house is on fire, your children are gone,
All save one who's name is Ann,
And she's hid under the frying pan."

In the Hippy 60's Robin Williamson of The Incredible String Band gave us

"Ladybird , ladybird what is your wish ?
Your wish isn't granted unless it's a fish.
Your wish isn'tb\ granted unless it's a dish.
A fish on a dish, if that's what you wish."

...

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Literature

Here is a ladybug rhyme from North America (author unknown).

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

  Lady Bug, Lady Bug
  She landed on my nose
  I went "kerchoo!" and
  Off she flew!

  Her body is round with
  Big black dots,
  My mommy told me
  They're called spots.

  Lady Bug, Lady Bug
  She looks really neat
  With her bright red wings,
  And tiny black feet!

...

LL-L "Etymology" 2005.07.21 (12) [E]

From: Utz H. Woltmann <uwoltmann at gmx.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.07.21 (06) [E]

Elsie Zinsser het geskryf:

>> I forgot to tell you that we call the ladybird in Afrikaans a
>> "Liewe-Here
>> besie", i.e 'Dear Lord's beetle'.
>
The name of the litle bug 'lady bird' is in Polish 'biedronka'. But it
is also known under the name of 'boża krówka', which means something
like 'devine little cow' or 'devine cattle'. What´s the hell is the
relationship of a bug to God or The Lord?

Szczęść Boże!
Utz H. Woltmann

...

From: Luc Hellinckx <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>
Subject: "Etymology"

Hi Ingmar,

You wrote:

> From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
> Subject: LL-L "Literature" 2005.07.10 (01) [E]
>
> In het Nederlands: Lieveheersbeestje [liv@"he:rsbe:iS@].
> <Onze Lieve Heer> lit. Our Dear Lord is the name most used for Jesus
> Christ, in Roman Catholic circles. The Netherlands are historically a
> Calvinist Protestant country, but nowadays the "RC's" make up about 40 %
> of the population. In the South, i.e Brabant and Limburg, almost everyone
> is RC, like in Flanders. "Onzelievenheer" (with N) sounds pretty Southern
> and Catholic for the Dutch ear, we (the Protestants) would rather say
> <de Heere> (de Lord). But in <lieveheersbeestje> lady bug/beetle etc
> religion doesn't play a role, or it should be that the Catholics in the
> South (Brabant) call it Onzelieven(h)eersbeestje.
> In my native Low Saxon region the insect is called "sünnekuyksken",
> something like "chicken of the sun" or "cookie od the sun" ?

We call a ladybird an "ons-lie-vraa-bisjke" here in Brabant. Clearly <
"onze-lieve-vrouw-beestje". So no referral to Jesus Christ, but rather
to his mother.

In my native town of Merchtem (and in many other Brabantish places I
believe), traditionally, mother Mary has always been revered a lot more
than any other holy person. I once heard this could be due to a previous
nature godess that must have ruled supreme. What culture she must be
associated with, I can't tell (maybe Celtic?), but it's a fact that
mother Mary is sometimes depicted with a black skin (so called "Zwarte
Madonna"...held in highest esteem among catholics). Maybe there's a link?

Those statues can be found, not only in the basilica of my hometown
Halle, but all over Europe. Point is that the official church has always
been very silent about the phenomenon, never taking any official stance.
Goes to show: It's a long way from a white guy to a black woman...for
some of us ;-)

Greetings,

Luc Hellinckx

...

From: R. F. Hahn <lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net>
Subject: Etymology

Utz, folks,

Consider also this:

Russian: божья коровка _božja korovka_ ("godly cow")
Bulgarian: божа кравица _boža kravica_ ("godly cow")
Serbo-Croatian: božja ovčica ("godly black sheep")

I wrote earlier:

> Take another type of bug, the ladybug (~
> ladybird), for instance.  In Dutch it is _lieveheersbeestje_ ("Dear
> Lord's critter"), and in Low Saxon it has similar fancy names, such as
> _Heergottskoh_ ~ _Herrgottskoh_ ("The Lord's cow"), _Sünnenkind_ ("sun
> child"), _Sünnenküken_ ("sun chick"), _Maandküken_ ("moon chick") and
> _Maankalf_ ("moon calf")!

Might there be something folkloristic we are missing here?

Onze Luc"

> In my native town of Merchtem (and in many other Brabantish places I
> believe), traditionally, mother Mary has always been revered a lot more
> than any other holy person. I once heard this could be due to a previous
> nature godess that must have ruled supreme. What culture she must be
> associated with, I can't tell (maybe Celtic?), but it's a fact that
> mother Mary is sometimes depicted with a black skin (so called "Zwarte
> Madonna"...held in highest esteem among catholics). Maybe there's a link?
>
> Those statues can be found, not only in the basilica of my hometown
> Halle, but all over Europe. Point is that the official church has always
> been very silent about the phenomenon, never taking any official stance.
> Goes to show: It's a long way from a white guy to a black woman...for
> some of us ;-)

;-)  Well, well, ... And thanks for helping me to make etymology and
folklore inextricable here!

By the way, note that the Black Madonna is *the* patron saint of the Roma
people ("Gypsies," whose ancestry is Indian) , and it is pretty much
accepted that this goes back to their pre-Christian belief system.  I have
my own wild theory about that, probably in a pan-Eurasian context.
Actually, I'm by no means by myself there.

In Hinduism, one of the most revered deities is कळी Kali (meaning, some say
"time," I say "black (one)" fem.; cf. Romany _ka(u)li_ 'black'), after whom
apparently also Calcutta (Bengali কলকাতা _Kolkātā_ < Sanskrit कळीकोत
_Kalikota_ "Kali City") is named. Kali is depicted with black or dark blue
skin, representing the unmanifest of the womb.  I won't even try to describe
her further here, because she is very complex, dealing with life and death
and ultimately with liberation.  Clearly, she is related to the ancient
"nature goddess" or "devine mother" religion that used to cover most of
Eurasia (and North Africa), and later religions partly derived their female
deities from her, particularly Isis of Egypt, in part even the Hinduist
deity of wealth लक्ष्मी Lakshmi, in Buddhism, especially in Vajrayana
(Tibetan) Buddhism, the various bodhisattvas named Tara (including a black
one), and in East Asian Mahayana Buddhism 觀音 Guanyin (Japanese Kannon), the
female bodhisattva (not "goddess") of compassion (कारुण, not "mercy")
derived from the original male bodhisattva Avalokiteshvara (आवालोकितेश्वर
Āvālokiteśvara "The Lord That Gazes Down to Observe"), probably also the
Wiccan and Celtic Brid(get).  Many claim that she is also a source of
Catholic Christian Mary worship.  The Roma Saint Sara la Kali (!!! a.k.a.
"Black Madonna") is widely believed to be a Christianized metamorphosis of
Kali whose worship had been imported from Mother India.

***

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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