LL-L "Etymology" 2007.05.18 (04) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L  -  19 May 2007 - Volume 04

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From: Elsie Zinsser <ezinsser at icon.co.za>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.05.19 (01) [E]

Hi Jonny and Ron,

I'm taking a flyer but suspect that Huuk and Eck (meaning corner Afrikaans:
hoek) are

closely related but that huuk (crouch, Afrikaans hurk) comes from a
different root.

Now to find evidence.
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From: Kevin Caldwell <kevin.caldwell1963 at verizon.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.05.19 (01) [E]

> From: Jonny Meibohm <altkehdinger at freenet.de>
> Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2007.05.18 (04) [E]
> Beste Ron,
>
> in your table here: lowlands-l.net/anniversary/jysk-info.php
>
> you translate 'corner' in LS as 'Eck', 'Huuk' ('Huke' here).
>
> This (your choice) is very interesting and I formerly had made some
thoughts about it.
>
> In our Lower-Elbe-dialect both words are in use, but I think the first
choice to describe
> the corner of a street or anything else comparable within a landscape
would be 'Hoyrn', 'Hörn'.
> So I always would do though I guess the very early, basic meaning was
something betokening a
> 'peak', as e.g. 'Cape Horn' shows.
>
> It would be interesting to find out whether the Scandinavian 'hörn',
'horn', 'hjørn' came as an
> LS loan into those languages or if they are pan-germanic.
Isn't this more a pan-IE thing? English has 'horn'(going back to OE) in
multiple senses, such as animal horns, a cape or promontory (the Horn of
Africa), as well as a musical instrument (originally made from animal
horns), while Latin 'cornu' gives us, through French, 'corner' and
derivatives such as 'unicorn', 'tricorn (hat)', 'cornet', and 'cornucopia'
(horn of plenty).

Kevin Caldwell

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From: Jonny Meibohm <altkehdinger at freenet.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.05.19 (01) [E]

He, Ron,

going on with LS 'Huuk'/'Huke'/'Hoek'.

This afternoon I had a meeting with some of my native neighbours, and I told
them about our/this thread.

Very interesting!

We came to the agreement that 'Huuk'/'Huke' denotes the *inner* side of an
'edge', of always an artificial/geometrical angle, e.g. of any kind of
building (so as in my formerly mentioned: 'dike').

And- the word LS: 'Oken' (which I'm sure you're familiar with) could be
derived from it. 'Oken' means G: 'Abseite', 'hinterste Ecke', also
'Dachschräge'; E: (according to http://www.dict.cc/?s=Abseite ) 'nave
aisle'. 'Kiek inns in dennen achtersten *Oken* van 't Schapp. Door steiht
noch 'n Pakken Zolt.' E:'Just have a look into the aftmost edge of the
cupboard. You'll find a pack of salt there.'

[Wow- 'aftmost'! Never seen before. What a nice and archaic word I'll never
forget again which I got from dict.cc!]

Houl Dii hattig!

Jonny Meibohm

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From: R. F. Hahn < sassisch at yahoo.com>
 Subject: Etymology

And watch them go feasting on another scrap of etymology!

Elsie:

> Now to find evidence.

Hmmmm ... indeed.  And here's a little beauty coming your way, "guys."

Ek (Eck < OS eggia, German Ecke) 'corner', though apparently not related to
the "horn" ~ "corner" (< IE *̑ker(ə)-, "horn") and "hook" (< IE *keg-
"pointed stick") groups, in fact belongs to the Indo-European group of *ak-̑
~ *ok̑-, which denotes "sharp" as in "sharp angle".

And there's the Low Saxon word Oken (~ Öken) Jonny and his Oldkehdinger Olen
were talking about (and I have come across as Aken as well)!  Apparently,
its earliest meaning is 'underside of a roof top', 'attic', namely where the
two angles of a pointed roof meet.  Its secondary meaning is 'far end of an
inside space', such as the far inside wall of an armoir.

So, yes, Jonny.  I tentatively go along with the notion that that
Huukdenotes the
inside of a corner (as in "The teacher made me stand in the corner," as
opposed to "The teacher was walking around the corner" as in "outsidecorner").

So I go as far as postulating that a huke was an inside corner and a
hoyrnwas an outside corner in Saxon, while
ek can now denote either of them.

Kevin:

> It would be interesting to find out whether the Scandinavian 'hörn',
'horn', 'hjørn' came as an
> LS loan into those languages or if they are pan-germanic.

My hunch is that it's pan-Germanic.

Reinhard/Ron
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