LL-L "Etymology" 2007.09.27 (05) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L  -  27 September 2007 - Volume 05
Song Contest: lowlands-l.net/contest/ (- 31 Dec. 2007)
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From: Luc Hellinckx <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology"

Beste Marlou,

You wrote:
>
>     ...according to Grimm:
>
>     /ganz bestimmt tritt aber auch der begriff des nicht ausgewachsenen
>     hervor. so bair./ krott /nicht nur als zärtliche benennung eines
>     mädchens von kleinem wuchse, auch von jedem unter seinesgleichen
>     besonders klein gebliebenen geschöpfe, menschen oder thiere, dazu/
>     verkrottet /gleich/ verbuttet, /im wachsthum zurückgeblieben,///
>
> Kann unser plattdeutsches "Krattholt" für "Unterholz" davon kommen?

I actually think your "Kratt-" in "Krattholt" ties with German "Krätze",
"(Rücken)korb" (basket, hod).
Related are Dutch "krat" (crate), English "cradle", Lithuanian "grandis"
(bracelet), Old Irish "grinne" (bundle of twigs, fascicle)...and maybe
Old Indian "grathnati" (winds, ties up). These are all words that have
something to do with plaiting, and I guess that the twigs that were
needed for this activity may have come out of the Krattholt.

>     auch das
>     luxemb./ kratz /unter d findet wol einen anhalt in schwed./ kratta /f.
>     kleines elendes pferd/ /R//IETZ/ 350^b .
>
>     Apparently, Northern English and Scots has similar words too,
>     "crut" and
>     "croot".
>
> Im Hochdeutschen gibt es das Wort "abkratzen" für ein langsames,
> elendes Versterben. Hat das etwa auch damit zu tun?!

Duden: "abkratzen" ~ die Sitte des Kratzfußes ironisierend, und Kratzfuß
= eine Art Verbeugung bei der der Fuß scharrend nach hinten gezogen
wird, also nach dem kratzenden Gerausch, das dabei verursacht wird.

What struck me though, is that in my Brabantish translation of the Wren,
I used the word "krööt(e)n" for the little bird in the end, and ?by
coincidence? Joachim Kreimer-de Fries said "de lütke Kratssack" in his
Osnabrück translation. I can't give an etymology of this "Kratssack",
but it sounds very familiar, because Brabantish "kräätzak" means a
quarrelsome person.

Greetings,

Luc Hellinckx

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From: R. F. Hahn < sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

I think you're on to something there, Luc.

To me, the primary meaning of Kratt and Krattholt is '(bundle(s) of)
kindling'.  I think of the sense 'undergrowth' as secondary.  So it may have
once meant "(loose) wood for the basket."

Old German has kratto ~ chratto for '(carrying) basket', and Old English has
cræt for the same.  They are related to Indo-European *gret- 'to weave
(wicker)'.  The Old German word must be derived from *kraddo ~
*chraddosince otherwise it would be *krazzo
~ *krazzo > *Krätz(e), though in some Old and Middle German dialects you do
find the forms chrezzo, chrezze and kreizo, and some Modern German dialects
do have Krätze.

And ... tada! ... it's related to English "cradle" via diminution (*cræd-l >
cradel).  So a cradle started off as a small or "dear" basket (bassinet).
Some Modern German dialects also use Krätze for 'cradle'.

By the way, Krœtsack is in the original version of the story (
lowlands-l.net/anniversary/nordneddersassisch.php). I suppose it got
perpetuated in translations into closely related language varieties.

I am quite convinced that the first part in Krœtsack is related to Kratt.
Bear in mind that it has a monophthong ([œ(:)] which tends to be derived
from [a:]) while Low Saxon dialects that have a cognate of German
Kröte'toad' have a diphthong here: Krööt
[krœıt] ~ Kräut [kroıt].  So I contend that Kratt and Krœtsack have nothing
to do with toads.

As for semantics of Krœtsack etc., I have no problem taking the leap. A
person that is a Krœtsack is cantankerous, crabby or cranky. This could well
be because collected kindling -- sticks and odds and ends of wood -- don't
fit very well into bags, and when you carry such a bag you'll find it to be
an unpleasant experience, what with all the sticking-out, scratching, poking
and carrying-on ...

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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