LL-L "Etymology" 2009.12.01 (05) [EN]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 01 December 2009 - Volume 05
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From: Hellinckx Luc <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology"

Beste Ron,

You wrote:

I wonder if early Dutch-speaking immigrants had their hands in this: *
*betehuus* > **bedehuis* (*gebedshuis*)?

Remember that large numbers of medieval Dutch speakers, mostly in the
garment trade, moved to Wales and later from their to parts of England and
Scotland (hence surnames like Fleming, Walsh, Welsh etc.).

But wait! There's more!

Old Saxon actually has the word *bedehūs* ("prayer house")!

Old Low Frankish sources are scarcer, but I consider it possible that it had
a cognate.

Now I'm starting to wonder if you are right in suspecting that the word was
introduce to Wales from a Saxon source.

In Old English I would expect a cognate like **bidda**hūs*, but there seems
to no trace of that.


Bitte! ;=)

Note also the name of first and foremost Anglo-Saxon scholar: The Venerable
Bede, one of the greatest (church) historians of all time probably.

His name is cognate with "bede" (Dutch for prayer), and with English "bead".
Yep, the New Orleans stuff ;=)...originally used in something more mundane
like a Roman-Catholic rosary...with which you could count your prayers.

Kind greetings,

Luc Hellinckx, Halle, Belgium

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From: Jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
 Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2009.12.01 (04) [EN]

 Dear Lowlanners,

looking for the origin of 'kirke' again.

Ron means:

OK, here are the words for "church" in the Modern Insular Celtic languages
and the most likely donor languages:

Greek: εκκλησία (ekklēsía)
> Latin: ecclesia

Yes, of course, the Celtic Christs still call it with a related term this
way (and I mentioned it in my first posting in this threat)! But these Irish
missionaries had to be diplomates, and they had to respect the germanic
people's old customs to be successful in their intentions to perform them
into Christs.

So - maybe they took up 'familiar' items denoting Germanic mythology, as we
know it from other rituals as Easter festival and Christmas.

And isn't "κυριακον" ('Haus des Herrn')  a perfect translation of

*"Valaskjalf"* (also called 'Walhalla' but that's wrong!)?

de.wiki writes:
>>Valaskjalf ist in der nordischen Mythologie einer der *Götter*paläste in
Asgard. Das Dach >>der *Halle* ist mit Silber gedeckt. Laut der Snorra-Edda
steht hier auch ... der Thron >>Odins.

("In nordic mythology the hall of the Germanic Gods, with a roof of silver
and the throne of Odin in its midst.")

10 cents worth??

Allerbest!

Jonny Meibohm
Lower Saxony, Germany

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Thanks, *makkers*. Very interesting!

Jonny:

And isn't "κυριακον" ('Haus des Herrn')  a perfect translation of

 *"Valaskjalf"* (also called 'Walhalla' but that's wrong!)?

In what way is it a perfect translation?

*Skjalf*, a cognate of "shelf'" ("platform", "terrace"?), apparently
referred to a divine abode or temple. (There you are, Paul.) *Vala-* is
thought to refer to the god son Váli.

Am I missing something ... a lot?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

•

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