LL-L "Idiomatica" 2009.05.04 (01) [EN]

[Lowlands-L List]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 04 May 2009 - Volume 01
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From: "Mari Sarv" <mari at haldjas.folklore.ee>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2009.05.03 (05) [E]

 OK then, probably we’ve got a good German Kinderstube in Estonia (we’ve
never minded minute times, though).

I was quite amazed to read that it might be just a habit, not understood by
everyone, as well as when waitress here in Aberdeen asked me (hm,  I don’t
remember what exactly she was asking) if I was done, when my knife and fork
were clearly NOT together.

just my two bits of observation,

Mari Sarv
Aberdeen, Scotland

From: M.-L. Lessing <marless at gmx.de>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2009.05.03 (04) [E]

Hello Mel,

in most Hamburg restaurants that I know -- among them croatian and other
"exotic" restaurants -- waiters of all nations understand these
knife-and-fork-signals

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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
 Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2009.05.03 (04) [E]

With different nationalities pointing their knives and forks in different
directions, waiters can be forgiven for not knowing what they all mean!

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Brussels came up with a European Standard
on knife and fork codes......

On second thoughts, that might actually be useful, so probably not.

Paul

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From: heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk <heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk>
 Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2009.05.01 (08) [E]

from Heather Rendall heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk

re the discussion on 'work on'

"I'm working on it" surely has the connotation wherever it is used of 'I
haven't stopped yet' 'I haven't given up' or even 'I'm not making
much progress ( if any) but I am perservering'

"I can't understand what this essay is about but I'm working on it" i.e. I'm
still trying to analyse it.

There is also 'to work at' something.

The implication here is that you are trying to effect a change and it's
pretty slow going. "My Dad says I can't come on Saturday but I'm working at
it" i.e. By the time I've finished he's sure to change his mind.

In the context of food and eating 'work on it' means "Please don't take my
plate away yet. I'm still eating'

Whereas if you were to say " I'm working at it" in the same situation there
would have to be a change in mind i.e. a tough steak that you are determined
to divide into flesh and gristle!!!

There could also be in the context of food 'to work through' which means
dogged determination to eat ( slowly but surely) every last bit of the huge
portion in front of you! Or humorously ... stolidly working/ chewing your
way through your fiancée's first dinner party.

"Work out" = suddenly realise what the meal is made of!

"I've worked up a good enough appetite to work through six plates of Mum's
apple pie"

"Have you tried Aunt Emma's pastry? You really have to work at it !"

Don't you just love prepositions and what they do to thoughts and ideas!

Best wishes

Heather

Worcester UK

ps Not so sure that you can't also say "My Dad says I can't come on Saturday
but I'm working on it"  with the same meaning i.e. By the time I've finished
he's sure to change his mind.
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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Idiomatica

Bravo, Heather! That was brilliant.

Those idiomatic expressions and their context examples show not only what
differences the prepositions make but also that the semantic range of
English "to work" is different from the semantic ranges of *werken*, *werken
~ arbeiten*, *warken* ~ *arbeiden* and equivalents in other related
languages.

And after the mean? Work it *off* ...

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

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