LL-L "Etymology" 2010.08.12 (02) [EN-NL]

Thu Aug 12 16:53:14 UTC 2010

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*L O W L A N D S - L - 12 August 2010 - Volume 01
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From: Jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>

Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2010.08.11 (03) [DE-EN-NDS]

Beste Marcus,

Du schreyvst to my "Wiemen":

>> Are you sure that it's "wood pile" (Holzstapel)? I only know the word as
"wood

>> pole" (Holzstange).

You're absolutely right! I had been too sure that '-pile' (Lat.: hair) did
mean something thin and long and didn't look into a dictionary.

Thanks!

Jonny Meibohm

Lower Saxony, Germany

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From: Roland Desnerck <desnerck.roland at skynet.be>

Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2010.08.11 (06) [EN]

Beste toalmoats oaltegoare,

In mijn West-Vlaams van Oostende kennen we:

vimme: stroschelf;

hoetvimme (of hoetvumme): houtstapel.

hoojvimme (of hoojvumme): hooimijt.

et veust van en hoojvimme: het bovenste deel van een hooimijt.

In de hoop dat jullie hier iets aan hebben, groet ik jullie,

Toetnoasteki,

Roland Desnerck

Watergangstraat 9

8420 De Haan

tel. 0032 59 235657

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From: Marcus Buck <list at marcusbuck.org>

Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2010.08.11 (06) [EN]

From: Hellinckx Luc <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>

According to data I collected for my Plattmakers dictionary (
<http://www.plattmakers.de/index.php?show=2131><http://www.plattmakers.de/index.php?show=2131>)
the word is at least known from Groningen and the Veluwe in the west to
Mecklenburg in the east and from Schleswig in the north to Waldeck in the
south. That means it's common Low Saxon. I didn't find any references that
the word is known in High German or Dutch.

There are though.

Not surprisingly, the word is also known in Western Flemish as 'vim',
'viem', 'vumme', 'fiem' and 'vijm', meaning a big pile of wood or straw. In
use in Bruges, Ostend, Poperinge, Roeselare, and the very west in general.
In Old Saxon 'fimba' was a stack of grain, but Old and Middle High German
had the word too, resp. 'vîna' and 'vimme', a bunch. For some reason, it
must have vanished in the upper lands. I have no idea why, maybe
interference? Flemish also has 'vimme' for 'fin' (E), Flosse (G), just like
some Swedish dialects do, 'fime'. Maybe one 'vimme' killed another one?

Yes, the 'vim/Fimm(e)' word is used outside Low Saxon. But 'Wiem(en)' is a
different word. When I said "I didn't find any references that the word is
known in High German or Dutch." I spoke about 'Wiem(en)'. Dutch 'wijm'
meaning 'wilg', 'willow' exists and is also claimed to be derived from Latin
'vimen' just as Grimms do claim for 'Wiem(en)' but there seems to be no
direct relation between the two very well-defined Low Saxon meanings for
(rather unflexible) poles on one side and the Latin and Dutch words for
flexible wood. It's both wood but that's all. Perhaps they are related but I
have not yet seen any reference that connects both to a bigger image.

Marcus Buck

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From: heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk <heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk>

Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2010.08.11 (06) [EN]

from Heather Rendall heathererndall at tiscali.co.uk

re this current thread and all responses so far

Now I know why I follow this forum and value it so highly! The depth of
knowledge that a simple query can produce is amazing. Thank you all so much.

Especial thanks to Marcus for those Vine references near here. Perhaps I
should explain why I was inquiring. Having read Prof Dyer's statement re
vine/ vinestall, I was struck by the co-incidence of the word and that of a
small field lying next to one of our older properties. On a 1730 map the
field is named Vineyard and the much larger field next to it Vine Close. We
had debated some years ago whether 'vineyard' and 'vinyard' were one and the
same thing and had come to the conclusion that they probably were and that
this small enclosure was or had been at some time a 'vinyard' for vines. The
property's records go back to c 1270 so it is possible.

However I would now like to re-think the whole thing. It would make much
more sense

a) because it is quite a small area and

b) because it is right next to the house,

that this 'vineyard' contained the woodstack that served the house and kept
its fires going!

I am sure Marcus' Vine Street in Droitwich derives from wood stacks. If I
have time I'll investigate the others. I shall certainly ask members at the
Worcester Archeological Society. Perhaps it will ring a bell with them too.

Many many thanks for such clear definitions / derivations

Heather

Worcestershire UK

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