LL-L "Etymology" 2011.06.05 (02) [DE-EN

Sun Jun 5 16:51:39 UTC 2011

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L O W L A N D S - L - 05 June 2011 - Volume 02
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From: Theo Homan theohoman at yahoo.com
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2011.06.04 (06) [EN]

From: R. F. Hahn
[...]

First of all, I am surprised the Dutch word is kiem rather than expected
*kijm. Is it a Saxon loan?

The Herkunftsduden claims that this word group exists only in the "German
and Dutch" area.
[...]

Hi,

I would like to put icel. keim(u)r = flavour in this word-family.
And I have the impression that Herr Duden didn't speak oldicelandic.

And the old root would then be something like *ki.

Concerning Dutch kiem vs. *kijm: I hope that some wise people can have a
little talk about this.

vr. gr.
Theo Homan

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From: M.-L. Lessing marless at gmx.de
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2011.06.04 (06) [EN]

Dear Reinhard,

to the etymology of "Keim" I can say nothing, but the psychological effect
of the word is very clear. If you use a Fremdwort like "pathogen", though it
carries the more dramatic meaning, it will drip off the minds of people,
especially the elderly and/or less educated. But "Keim" is a word that looks
them straight into the face. "Igitt, Keime! Widerliche Keime!" Nobody thinks
of germing beechnuts or delicious soy bean sprouts in this context; you know
that the human mind can very effectively separate between contexts -- so
effectively that "Keim" seems like almost not the same word in these two
instances, even to me now. "Ja, das sind *auch* Keime, aber das hier sind *
Keime*!" I think the medical people talk Fachsprache to international
media and German to local media, and with reason. -- It is so with many
foreign words: German words are more expressive to Germans. If you tell a
German that Ratko Mladic is now accused of commiting "Genozid", he or she
may shrug, but if you say "Völkermord", Horror enters the scene. Foreign
words are often used deliberately to render an otherwise uncomfortable
message more abstract, distanced, sterile. (Now how do I translate these 3
words? Körperlos, entfernt, -- and, yes: *keimfrei*! :-)) But "abstrakt" is
really a necessary word.)

Now as to the matter itself, of course people panic and overreact, and that
together with that nasty bacterium really is a trouble. We are all dismayed
here at the performance of the authorities. They seem to work slow and
bureaucratically. To the sick patients they have given long printed forms to
fill in what they have eaten and when and where they bought it etc. Printed
forms! Instead of a detective sitting down at the bedside and gently and
skilfully interviewing them! They say printed forms can be better made to
fit into computer databases. They are in fact trying to make it easy for *
themselves*! Maybe they will never find "the source", "die Quelle", as they
call it, and what a disaster will that be for farmers!!! Farmers are
desperate, not only german ones. We will all die of vitamin lack, because
nobody, really nobody here eats fresh vegetables now. Nor fruit. Quite
silly. Restaurants offer no salads etc. I have eaten salad and a tomato
lately, but don't tell my mother!

I hope when black cherries are ripe I will be the only customer and get tons
of them very cheap. Hmmm!

Hartlich

Marlou

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From: Marcus Buck list at marcusbuck.org
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2011.06.04 (06) [EN]

 From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>

First of all, I am surprised the Dutch word is *kiem* rather than expected *
*kijm*. Is it a Saxon loan?

            <http://www.etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/kiem1><http://www.etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/kiem1>says
either that or a German loan from times before the Middle High German
diphthongization.

           Danish has *kim*, probably imported from Middle Saxon.

My Gyldendals Røde Ordbøger Etymologi says it is indeed a Saxon loan.

Marcus Buck

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Thanks, Marcus.

... or a German loan from times before the Middle High German
diphthongization.

But in that case it should have gone through *Dutch* diphthongization (> **
kijm*), or?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

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From: Hannelore Hinz <hannehinz at t-online.de> <hannehinz at t-online.de>
Subject: Lexicon

Hallo Ron un Lowlanners.

http://www.bild.de/ratgeber/gesund-fit/ehec/100-ehec-erreger-reichen-fuer-infektion-darmkeim-mutation-18204596.bild.html

Woans sall man dit nu utleggen...

Diagnose: EHEC also von Erreger, Auslöser: Keime

*SYNONYM-WÖRTERBUCH
*VEB BIBLIOGRAPHISCHES INSTITUT LEIPZIG 1973

Erreger s. Krankheitserreger:
Der Keim SYN.: Krankheitskeim, Erreger, Keim, Bakterie, Bazillus, Virus

keimen: zu keimen beginnen, aufkeimen, aufgehen, aufsprießen, aufsproßen,
auflaufen, aufknospen, aufschwellen usw.

*Störig *Das große Wörterbuch der deuschen Sprache  1990 *Parkland
Erreger **Kleinstlebewesen, das in einem Organismus eine Infektionskrankheit
erregt
**Keim **Erreger von Krankheiten *(Krankheitskeim)

*Wossidlo/Teuchert
Kin, *in STA (Stargard) auch Kim m. Keim, bes. der Getreidekörner, der
Bohnen und Kartoffeln: 'de Kiem, de Kien, das Kieneken' (von der Bohne); vom
beginnenden Keimen heißt es: *de Rogg' is in de Kin; dat Gras leg' in de
Kin; dei Ketüffeln hebben dei Kinen in 'n Mund; ..smiten Kinen;  *von den
Queckenwurzeln: *dat Schap treckt den Kin ut dei Ierd' rut, maakt den Acker
rein; *im Anruf an den Kuckuck: *Kukuk in 'n gräunen Kin, Wo lang' sall ick
noch Jumfer sin?  *Zss.: *Gasten-, Roggenkin. -
*Mnd.* kîne*, *kîme.
**Kinlock, *n. Keimloch der Kartoffel; SYN.: *Kinog',  Og'lock, Og'.*

*Kien *m. in den Rda. : *up 'n Kien passen* scharf achtgeben; Jiddisch *kiwen
*aufmerksam, beflissen.

*kiben *Nahrung durch die *Kiemen *aufnehmen: *dei Nägenog' kiwt blot, dei
hett keinen Magen.

*P.S.: Ick will bi best' Gelegenheit mien Christel L. fragen, de hett up
Medizin studiert.

Un wedder mien best Gräuten.

Hanne

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