LL-L "Grammar" 2011.03.07 (04) [EN]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 28 February 2011 - Volume 04
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From: Kevin & Cheryl Caldwell <kevin.caldwell1963 at verizon.net>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2011.03.07 (02) [EN]



The word “separate” can sometimes be used the same way.



- I spoke with him on five separate occasions.



Kevin Caldwell

Laurel, MD



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From: M.-L. Lessing <marless at gmx.de>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2011.03.07 (02) [EN]



But the languages *are* different! There *is* reason for a quiet little
expression of astonishment at the four languages of Switzerland. Who will
grudge this little by-word of wonder? And maybe the four occasions when you
"spoke with him" were different as well? Not four times the same occasion?
Each one remarkable in itself? I see no problem with this use of words. It
surely emphasizes the complexity, often heaviness, of how things go on ("I
had to speak to four different people to get four different
forms/stamps/permissions...", just think of german bureaucracy!), but things
*are* complex, and there ist difference everywhere. I think difference is
rather underrepresented generally. I don't mind to have it a little
overrepresented now and then.



Hartlich!



Marlou



From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Grammar



But what about the now frequent colloquial use of “different” where it is
redundant?



* There are four different languages in Switzerland.

* I spoke with him on five different occasions.



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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Grammar



Thanks, Kevin and Marlou.

Nice point about “separate” in place of “different,” Kevin.

In any case, in terms of grammar at least, it should be possible to
formulate the opposites thusly:



* There are four identical languages in Switzerland.

* I spoke with him on five identical occasions.



The first seems quite ungrammatical to me. As Luc already mentioned, where
you have more than one language there is diversity.

It would be different if you said:

* There are four very different languages in Switzerland.
  (This would be understood as "of very different types/genealogies.")

"I spoke with him on five identical occasions" seems marginally grammatical,
albeit awkward, to me in that it could denote “same kinds of occasions.”

Consider further examples randomly picked off the Internet:

* Three Different Directions
  (<> Three Identical Directions?)
  www.threedifferentdirections.com/

* Five Different Reasons to Ride a Bicycle
  (<> Five Identical Reasons to Ride a Bicycle?)
  www.bicyclinglife.com/newsandviews/5_Different_Reasons.htm

* Ten different expressions
  (<> Ten identical expressions?)
  www.thehindu.com › Arts › Art

It seems to me that the “gratuitous” use of “different” with numbers
represents a transition into idiomatic form.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA



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