LL-L "History" 2012.04.05 (02) [EN-NDS]

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 L O W L A N D S - L - 05 April 2012 - Volume 02
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From: Paul Finlow-Bates wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk
Subject: LL-L "History" 2012.04.05 (01) [EN]

There are two issues here really;

One is non-IE words in Germanic, of which, as Steven points out, there are
many.  These appear to be absorbed from the language of whoever was in the
historical Germanic-speaking area before the proto-Germanic speakers
arrived.  Robert Claiborne, in "Our Marvellous Native Tongue" nick-names
this language as "Folkish", partly because "folk" and its cognates is one
of these words.  Oddly, while Finnish and Estonian have some ancient
Germanic borrowings (not to be confused with much more recent Swedish
borrowings in Finnish) there seems to have been little traffic the other
way. "Folkish" seems to have been neither IE nor Finno-Ugraic.  English
contains a handful of words of no apparent known family origin: the
folk-word "brock" for a badger is a borrowing from Brythonic Celtic -
except the word is unknown in any other Celtic languages.  An even weirder
one is "dog".  It seems to turn up in Old English out of nowhere, with no
cognates anywhere else.  But many centuries later in the Mediaeval period,
"pig" was apparently invented out of nothing, as was "donkey" in the 17thC;
words don't have to have an ancestor as such.

The second question, regarding Germanic in the British Isles before the
generally accepted date(s) of Germanic migration into the islands in the
5thC CE, there are certainly archaeological remains around
Colchester pointing to Germanic presence alongside the Romans. This is
hardly surprising since the Romans regularly deployed "foederati" from all
over the Empire - and beyond.  Whether their language survived enough to
have contributed to English is another question. It has even been suggested
that these early Germanic troops in Britain were eventually the "fifth
column" telling folks back home that the Empire in Britannia was weak,
fragmented and ripe for the picking.

Before the Romans, we know that the Belgae were a presence in Britain, and
there have been suggestions that they were a sort of hybrid Germano-Celtic
people in terms of both culture and language.

However, the claim that English owes its origins mainly to pre-Roman
Germanic rather than post-Roman North Sea lowlands is not supported by most
linguists.

Paul
Derby
England

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From: Tomás Ó Cárthaigh tomasocarthaigh at yahoo.com
Subject: LL-L "History" 2012.04.04 (02) [EN]

The Ulster Scots Acadamy tell a story of a joint Celtic - Saxon invasion to
press out the Romans... how much truth there is in it I dont know.

Trying to find it today, their website is down!

Tomás

*"a person with a good book is never alone... a writer until they've
written one is never at peace" *
------------------------------

- www.writingsinrhyme.com  *:::* Add me on
Facebook<http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1068146849>
* :::* My YouTube Videos <http://www.youtube.com/>

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From: Hannelore Hinz <hannehinz at t-online.de> <hannehinz at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "History" 2012.04.04 (02) [EN]

Dear Ron and Lowlanders,
*Leiw'  Ron un Lowlanners,
*
Ron wrote:    What do you make of the newish hypothesis that there were
speakers of
                       Germanic languages in England before or during Roman
occupation?

                        Personally, I am not convinced, but I consider it
possible.
                        *Persönlich bün ick nich oewertügt,  œwer holl dat
för mœglich.*

I have no idea. But I think as you.
*Ick heff kein Ahnung. Oewer ick denk as du.

*I prefer English as before.
*Ingelsch as bether is mi leiwer.*

Or can we connect with etymology?
*Odder kœnn'n wi dat mit Etymologie (Herkamen) tausamen daun?

*We leave undone?
*Wi laten all'ns bi'n ollen?*

I wish all members Happy Easter.
*Ick wünsch all' Mitmakers Frohe Paaschen*.

Whether the Easter Bunny is busy?
*Ob de Osterhaas' flietig is*?

Best wishes and greetings.
*Best' Wünschen un Gräuten.

*Hanne
(Easter Bunny)

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