LL-L "Etymology" 2012.08.14 (03) [EN]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L - 14 August 2012 - Volume 03
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From: Jacqueline Bungenberg de Jong Dutchmatters at comcast.net
 Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2012.08.14 (01) [AF-EN]

Hello Ingmar, Mark, Elaine and Ron,

Thank you all for the etymological information on “Nooi” My goodness, that
word did travel. It is quite interesting. Each subset of languages takes
it, makes it its own and the subtly alters the meaning of the given word.
Power to the speakers.

Elaine, I understand that you prefer to read the book in your (own?) native
language. The facts and the feelings that are particular to your own setup
are supposed to be generating the best response. Your viol being tuned
exactly to the same chord as van Niekerk’s; playing in the same orchestra.
If I ever have a couple of months to re-read the book, I would like to try
and read it in the original. But my orchestra may not have viols. Over the
last few years I have read quite a few Dutch books in English translation
and vice versa. Although these translations by themselves were master
pieces, they very often engaged different strings in me. Having two
languages makes me into a beast with two heads and two hearts. But although
they are aware of each others’ existence, they are not thinking, feeling
and resonating  on the same wavelength.

Thank you all for your answers.
Jacqueline

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
 Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2012.08.13 (03) [EN]

Dear Lowlanders,

I wrote:

It may interest some of you to now that in today's Malaysia and Singapore, *
> nonya* or *nyonya* refers to a "Straights Chinese" woman. The masculine
> equivalent is *baba* (爸爸 'daddy'). The Baba and Nyonya are decedents from
> Chinese mixed with Malays and are often referred to as "Baba Chinese" or
> "Baba Malay," as are their Chinese-influenced dialects of Malay<http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/baba-info.php>,
> while their cuisine is known as "Nyonya cuisine."
>

I am not at all convinced that Afrikaans *nooi* and Straights Malay *
n(y)onya* go back to Portuguese *dona* [ˈd̪onɐ]. It seems like an unlikely
phonological process to me, even if I consider Southern Min Chinese as a
possible part of the mix.

I'm more inclined to go along with the theory that Afrikaans
*baie*[ˈbaɪ̯ə] 'much', 'many', 'very', comes from Malay
*banyak* 'much', 'many', 'very'. In most languages of southeastern Asia and
China, syllable-final voiceless stops are "unreleased." This means that the
speakers mouth remains in this position for a while and you don't hear what
to Westerners would seem like the "actual sound." This explains what to
many of us sounds like "clipped syllable" in those languages and in
European languages pronounced by their speakers. So, *banyak* sounds like
[ˈbanjək̚] in Straights Malay (*Melayu* or *Bahasa Malaysia*) and like
[ˈbanjak̚] in Indonesian Malay (*Bahasa Indonesia*). So the development
[ˈbanjək̚] > *[ˈbanjə] > *[ˈbajə] > [ˈbaɪ̯ə] seems plausible to me.

Let's not forget that some of the earliest speakers of Afrikaans were in
fact "Malays" and that some of the earliest written records of the language
are in the Arabic script. Also, "Malays" is a catch-all label for not only
the Straights Malays, Batavia Malays and Ambonese Malays, but also for the
Sundanese, the Javanese, the Madurese, the Minangkabau, the Acehnese, the
Makassarese, and many others that ended up in Southern Africa, for most of
whom basic Market Malay was their lingua franca before Afrikaans took that
place.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

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