LL-L "Literature" 2012.10.04 (03) [DE-EN-NDS]

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 L O W L A N D S - L - 04 October 2012 - Volume 03
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From: Mike Morgan mwmbombay at gmail.com

Subject: LL-L "Literature" 2012.10.03 (03) [EN]


Howard Scott howliosta at gmail.com wrote:

> I don't particularly like imposing the 5-7-5 syllables rule for haiku
> in English or other European languages, since the number of accented
> syllables is generally more important than the total number of
> syllables.

yes, there's a LONG tradition of "dispute" over what constitutes a 俳句
(haiku) in OTHER languages, if it is not all the "rules" that define a
俳句 in Japanese (5-7-5, season words, etc etc)

Howard goes on:
> (But you can set whatever constraint you want for yourself
> when composing poems.)

hmmm, I am not sure I would go along with the "whatever" attitude and
still consider that a haiku, I too think maybe we can look at the
intent rather than the letter of the law.

Therefore, since Japanese is syllable-timed and English is
stress-timed, maybe the 5-7-5 rule would translated into 5-7-5 FEET
(i.e. 5-7-5 stresses) not syllables...

hmmm (again!), although  that allows for the problem of all those
definite and indefinite articles in English, it certainly doesn't
"translate" into the same FEEL as when I read (hear) a 俳句

what to do?

(PS haiku translates wonderfully into Japanese Sign Language... even
if you require the syllable count (YES, Virginia, there are syllables
in Sign Language)

mwm || *U*C> || mike || माईक || мика || マイク (aka Dr Michael W Morgan)
sign language linguist / linguistic typologist
academic adviser, Nepal Sign Language Training and Research
NDFN, Kathmandu, Nepal

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Literature

When it comes to haiku in languages other than Japanese, it seems to me
that people get too hung up on meter, as though meter constitutes the only
rule of haiku. Besides, 5-7-5 is not the only possible count.

In real haiku, it is at least as important to allude to the season and to
make the whole thing into a "snapshot," a momentary burst of awareness of
impermanence. Many Westerners consciously try to build in allusions of the
philosophical or moral kinds, also refer to their emotions directly, none
of which has a place in haiku.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

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From: Hannelore Hinz <hannehinz at t-online.de> <hannehinz at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Literature" 2012.10.03 (03) [EN]

Ick mell mi hier noch eins, vunwägen Haiku...

An'n 20. Dag in'n Harwstmaand (20. September) schenkte mi Yasuji Waki  ein
grotorrig lütt Bauk, dat näumt sick: classic Haiku a master's selection -
selected & translated by Yuzuru Miura.

In den'n Klappentext künn ick läsen:
*Sparrows
    Playing hide-and-seek
        Among the tea blossoms.
                            -*Kobayashi Issa

*Haiku,  *the traditional Japanese verse form composed of seventeen
syllables, can express a dramatic scene or philosophical idea in a single
line of verse. In this collection, haiku poet Yuzuru Miura has selected and
translated poems by past masters such as Bashō and Buson, as well as haiku
by contemporary poets. Fireflies, pheasants, a summer shower, winter snow,
camellias--- all the favorite haiku subjects are included among the one
hundred poems of this impressive anthology.

*Yuzuru Miura *is an English literature professor at Chukyo University in
Nagoya. In 1984 he published *Suuifuto kanken (A. Glimpse of Swift).  *A
writer whose talents span both hemispheres, Miura is also an established
haiku poet.

*SPRING
**In sthe spring sea
    Waves undulating and undulating
        All day long.

*Haru no umi
    Hinemosu
        Notari notari kana.  -YOSA BUSON (1716-84)

*SUMMER
**Calm and serene
    The sound of a cicada
        Penetrates the rock.

*Shizukasa ya
    Iwa ni shimi-iru
        Semi no koe  -MATSUO BASHŌ

*AUTUMN
**From within the nostrils
    Of the colossal Buddha
        Comes aut this morning's fog.

*Daibutsu no
    Hana kara detari
        Kesa no kiri      -KOBAYASHI ISSA

*WINTER
**How cold -
    Freshly washed
        White leeks.

*Negi shiroku
    Araitate taru
        Samusa kana    -MATSUO BASHŌ

Ick heff ok versöcht, de Haiku in Hochdüütsch tau oewerdragen.
Oewer dat oewerlat ick leiwer de groten Experten.

Dat mit de Sülwen (fief-soeben-fief) hett uns ja  Ron all verklort, liekers
möten oewer ok an de Funkschon von de  drei Reigen denken.
Statik/Dynamik/Quintessenz. (5-7-5).

*Wild, rolling sea-
    The Milky Way
        Hangs over Sado Island

*Hier mal mien Oewerdragen in HD. (Oewer mi nich utlachen). Es ist noch
nicht vollkommen richtig.

Wild rollendes Meer -
Die Milchstraße
hängt über Sado Island.

Odder:
Die Milchstraße
hängt über Sado Island - (Sado Insel)
Wild rollendes Meer.

Ick lat mi oewerraschen.
*
*Hartlich Gräuten.

Hanne


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