[An-lang] An-lang Digest, Vol 137, Issue 4

Mon Feb 16 03:28:26 UTC 2015

The ACD (http://www.trussel2.com/ACD/acd-s_q.htm#27650) reveals two other
semantic links from "pity" > "give":
*Old Javanese* *paŋ-asih* ‘favor, favorite; gift (as token of love,
benevolence or favor); drinks offered to a guest’
*Tae'*
 (Toraja)
*asi*
  '
give a gift out of affection
'

As for Palawano, the forms *asi* and *kasi* are definitely related but I
would suspect *kasi* is a borrowing from Malay. According to the ACD, a
"love" meaning for *ka-qasiq is found in Javanese, Malay, Sundanese and
Balinese but does not seem to be attested in any languages of the
Philippines, where it only has the (presumably) original meaning of "pity".
Well, it's probably a thin line in any case between pity and love but
that's a topic for another thread.

*kaqasiq,

Dan

On Sun, Feb 15, 2015 at 6:27 PM, <an-lang-request at anu.edu.au> wrote:

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>    1. Etymology of Malayic "kasi" ("give") David Gil (Bill Davis)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2015 18:27:43 -0500
> From: Bill Davis <bill_davis at ntm.org>
> Subject: [An-lang] Etymology of Malayic "kasi" ("give") David Gil
> To: "an-lang at anu.edu.au" <an-lang at anu.edu.au>
> Message-ID: <3F727DA4-0745-450F-B870-5A46B215B1F4 at mail.ntm.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
> Hi David and all,
>
> I can?t comment on your proposed etymology. And I admit I am not familiar
> with the meaning ?give? for kasi. I can see the logic in Uri's explanation
> where "pity/care about" becomes via metonymy "give out of pity/caring
> about."
>
> My comments here probably relate more to kasi meaning ?care/love? (e.g.
> Terima kasi, etc.), and may not be helpful, not hopefully are at least
> interesting!
>
> In SW Palawano (PLV) on southern Palawan in the Philippines, so far south
> it is practically in Malaysia/Indonesia, we have the following:
>
> kasi means ?love.? It is a noun, and a verb root (letter e here is
> schwa-like vowel):
> kesien (transitive, so-called object focus, etc.)
>
> ?an adjective (with common me- derivational prefix)
> mekasi ?loving"
>
> There is also a derived adjectival form (from CV2 + -en)
> kekesien ?beloved"
>
> Now ?pity/mercy? in Palawano is ingasi?
>
> My theory on this one is that it comes from:
> in- + root
>
> We have an interesting prefix in- which creates various
> social/interactive/relational stems, sometimes adding the idea of
> completeness or action. Sometimes it seems to derive a different kind or
> degree of transitivity.
>
> in- assimilates to tbe initial consonant in some cases; other times it
> creates a portmanteau.
>
> It is not a productive affix, but only shows up in in a very limited set
> of fossilized forms where the (apparent) new stem functions as a verb root.
> Here are some examples of how it works, plus the ingasi (pity/mercy form,
> which I believe is related to your kasi question.)
>
> kaan         root: ?to eat?
> kumaan ?to eat a food"
> mengaan ?to eat a meal"
> menginaan ?to eat together socially?  (my theory: meng- + [[in- + kaan]])
>
> seod root: ?to find out, learn?
> seuden ?to find something out?
> keseudan ?knowledge"
> menginseod-seod ?to ask after someone? (also penginseod-seod) (my theory:
> [[in- + seod]] + RT2 distributive)
>
>
> poon         root: ?stem/trunk, source?
> impoonan ?to cut x off at the trunk? (my theory: [[in- + poon]] + -an)
>
> kulit         root: ?skin?
> inkulitan ?to skin x" (my theory: [[in- + kulit]] + -an)
>
> kasi root: ?love?
> kesien ?to love?
> ingasi          stem: ?pity/mercy? (my theory: [[in- + kasi]])
> ingesinan ?to show pity/mercy upon x? (my theory: [[in- + kasi]] + -an)
> (note we have the Agusan Manobo-like a-> schwa shift)
>
> Back to your theory on kasi coming from a complex form, interestingly,
> perhaps, we also have a root asi? which might mean ?to take care.? I?ve
> only heard it in imperative forms like these:
> Asi-asi ga!         ?Watch out! / Be careful!"
> Asi-asi na diki mededag!         ?Watch out that (you/it) don?t/doesn?t
> fall!"
>
> So might kasi come from ke- (non-volitional/abilitative/stative) + asi
> (care for)?
>
> Hmmmm.
>
> -Bill
>
>
> On Feb 8, 2015, at 5:01 PM, "an-lang-request at anu.edu.au<mailto:
> an-lang-request at anu.edu.au>" <an-lang-request at anu.edu.au<mailto:
> an-lang-request at anu.edu.au>> wrote:
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>   1. Re: An-lang Digest, Vol 137, Issue 1 (Uri Tadmor)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2015 09:04:49 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Uri Tadmor <uritadmor at yahoo.com<mailto:uritadmor at yahoo.com>>
> Subject: Re: [An-lang] An-lang Digest, Vol 137, Issue 1
> To: "an-lang at anu.edu.au<mailto:an-lang at anu.edu.au>" <an-lang at anu.edu.au
> <mailto:an-lang at anu.edu.au>>
> Message-ID:
>    <1562521619.871323.1423386289304.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com<mailto:
> 1562521619.871323.1423386289304.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi David,
> The root sih appears with various prefixes in various western Austronesian
> languages with the meaning 'pity', 'love', 'generous', e.g. in Malay
> kasih-sayang 'love', kasihan 'pity, poor X!', the compound sumbangsih
> 'contribution, assistance'; Old Javanese sih/asih 'love, affection,
> sympathy, generosity'; and modern Javanese sih 'love, favor'.? The missing
> link to the semantic shift from 'pity' to 'give' in Bazaar Malay can be
> seen in Onya Darat (a Land Dayak language of western Kalimantan) where the
> manse (it's a direct cognate, I can explain to you the derivation
> separately) means 'to give out of pity'.? The prototypical use of manse is
> giving meat after a hunt to members the community who are too old or weak
> to participate in a hunt or do not have family members who can participate
> in a hunt (e.g. widows and orphans).? Loss of the final -h is not unusual
> in Bazaar Malay (and in fact in Java Malay kasih 'give' retains the -h).?
> The initial ka- is indeed an affix but I'm not !
> sure it can be related to Malay ke 'to' or akan 'about, etc.'.? It is the
> same ka- or ke- found in the circumfix ka-an/ke-an.
> Best,
> Uri
>
>
>
>      From: "an-lang-request at anu.edu.au<mailto:an-lang-request at anu.edu.au>"
> <an-lang-request at anu.edu.au<mailto:an-lang-request at anu.edu.au>>
> To: an-lang at anu.edu.au<mailto:an-lang at anu.edu.au>
> Sent: Sunday, February 8, 2015 2:00 AM
> Subject: An-lang Digest, Vol 137, Issue 1
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> Today's Topics:
>
> ? 1. etymology of Malayic "kasi" ('give') (David Gil)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2015 16:13:49 +0900
> From: David Gil <gil at eva.mpg.de<mailto:gil at eva.mpg.de>>
> Subject: [An-lang] etymology of Malayic "kasi" ('give')
> To: Austronesian languages <an-lang at anu.edu.au<mailto:an-lang at anu.edu.au>>
> Message-ID: <54D5BB2D.5030905 at eva.mpg.de<mailto:
> 54D5BB2D.5030905 at eva.mpg.de>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> Dear Austronesianists,
>
> I am trying to find an etymology for Malayic "kasi" ('give').? Can
> anybody ...
>
> (1) point me to a previously proposed etymology for "kasi"?
> (2) suggest possible cognate forms in other (non-Malayic) Austronesian
> languages?
> (3) offer any other relevant thoughts and suggestions?
>
> So far I have not been able to find anything.? My current thinking is
> that "kasi" may be part of a complex of interrelated forms such as
> Standard Malay "ke" ('to'), "akan" (future, oblique), and "=kan"
> (causative, applicative), but this remains speculative.
>
> Thanks,
>
> David
>
> --
> David Gil
>
> Department of Linguistics
> Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
> Deutscher Platz 6, D-04103 Leipzig, Germany
>
> Telephone: 49-341-3550321 Fax: 49-341-3550333
> Email:gil at eva.mpg.de<http://eva.mpg.de>
> Webpage:http://www.eva.mpg.de/~gil/<http://www.eva.mpg.de/~gil/>
>
>
>
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