[An-lang] PAN *ñ missing in the new presentation of the ACD

[Laurent Sagart]

I know the forms are still there. But I’m curious. Forgive me for asking,
but around May or June 2021 if I’m not mistaken, Bob himself removed access
through “Index to sets” and “Cognate sets” to 8 out of the 11 PAN forms
with *ñ which had been in his ACD since at least  2015. I was puzzled by
this move, as the phoneme was still in the list of phonemes, and the forms
were still there in the ACD, just not accessible except through the
finderlist. Lack of *ñ in the phoneme list in the new version, which you
told me is an error, is in the continuity of Bob’s earlier move: it
removes direct
access to the three remaining PAN words with *ñ.

Best,

Laurent


Le sam. 18 mars 2023 à 08:26, Alex Smith <smith.alexander.david at gmail.com>
a écrit :

> The lack on ny is an error. The forms are still there in the ACD, just the
> header is missing. Thanks for pointing it out.
>
> On Sat, Mar 18, 2023, 3:15 PM Laurent Sagart <laurent.sagart at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hello, colleagues.
>>
>> I notice that in the new presentation of the ACD, *ñ has disappeared from
>> the list of phonemes at the top of the “Cognatesets” page. This is a matter
>> close to my heart since Blust has argued that my emendation of *j [gʲ] to a
>> palatal nasal clashed with PAN *ñ. Alex, can you provide any background ?
>> is this on Blust’s instructions ? did he say why ?
>>
>> Other than that, I second Yuko Kitada's suggestions.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Laurent
>>
>>
>> Le sam. 18 mars 2023 à 05:35, Yuko Kitada <yuyumalaysia at hotmail.com> a
>> écrit :
>>
>>> Dear Alex and An-listers,
>>>
>>> Thank you very much for your reply, Alex. It is good to preserve the
>>> original version of the ACD by Blust.
>>>
>>> As an avid user of the ACD, it would be more beneficial if you could do
>>> the following actions in the future:
>>>
>>> 1) Differentiate Blust's and your reconstructions by noting Blust's
>>> forms if you and his reconstructed items and their meanings differ. This is
>>> what Blust himself did for Dempwolff's reconstructed items, as observed
>>> here: https://www.trussel2.com/ACD/acd-s_g.htm#30961
>>>
>>> 2) Make an update log, which is easily accessible and readable as the
>>> original one. (https://www.trussel2.com/ACD/acd-updatelog.htm)
>>>
>>> I would appreciate it if you could consider these suggestions.
>>> I am sorry if I miss something that already exists.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Yuko Kitada
>>> yukokitada at outlook.com
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* Alex <smith.alexander.david at gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 18, 2023 11:44 AM
>>> *To:* Yuko Kitada <yuyumalaysia at hotmail.com>; An-lang at anu.edu.au <
>>> an-lang at anu.edu.au>
>>> *Subject:* RE: [An-lang] Opinion concerning the new ACD site
>>>
>>>
>>> The original ACD is still up, and the new ACD has release numbers and
>>> version control, so updates don’t make the past versions disappear.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From: *Yuko Kitada <yuyumalaysia at hotmail.com>
>>> *Sent: *Saturday, March 18, 2023 9:11 AM
>>> *To: *An-lang at anu.edu.au <an-lang at anu.edu.au>
>>> *Subject: *[An-lang] Opinion concerning the new ACD site
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello colleagues,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It is fantastic to continue the ACD site. However, as a historical
>>> linguist, I think that what Professor Robert Blust wrote should be kept as
>>> it was, for example, as a backup as Blust's version or by annotating that
>>> given forms were suggested by him. It will be better for us if someone
>>> builds on it after publishing his version because no one thinks precisely
>>> the same as Professor Blust as a person (It is not a matter of good or
>>> bad.).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What do you think about my opinion?
>>>
>>> Oceanic specialists might want to have a say about the new ACD by
>>> relating it to the Polynesian lexical collection by Professor Bruce Biggs,
>>> which has been developed by other professors and has become POLLEX Online (
>>> https://pollex.eva.mpg.de/). It has continued to be revised as well.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yuko Kitada
>>>
>>> yukokitada at outlook.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> An-lang mailing list
>>> An-lang at anu.edu.au
>>> https://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/an-lang
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Personal page: http://crlao.ehess.fr/index.php?92
>> Blog: https://stan.hypotheses.org/
>> my papers: https://cnrs.academia.edu/LaurentSagart
>> ; http://www.persee.fr/author/persee_66197
>> Lists of Old Chinese reconstructions (with Bill Baxter):
>> http://ocbaxtersagart.lsait.lsa.umich.edu/
>>
>>
>>
>>

-- 
Personal page: http://crlao.ehess.fr/index.php?92
Blog: https://stan.hypotheses.org/
my papers: https://cnrs.academia.edu/LaurentSagart
; http://www.persee.fr/author/persee_66197
Lists of Old Chinese reconstructions (with Bill Baxter):
http://ocbaxtersagart.lsait.lsa.umich.edu/
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