accusative + analytical DO markers
"José M. García-Miguel"
gallego at UVIGO.ES
Sun May 26 10:58:03 UTC 2013
As Paolo says, DOM is a well-kown feature of some Romance languages
giving place to prepositional marking of some Direct Objects.
But, I guess that the examples proposed by Paolo do not qualify as
"having both the accusative case and analytical direct object markers
(pre- or postpositions)", that Sergey was looking for. Nouns do not vary
for case, and I would not say that /Maria /is accusative [case] in /Ho
visto a Maria.
/However, personal independent pronouns and pronominal clitics do vary
for case: Spanish /yo /[Nominative]//'I' vs /mí /[not-Nominative,
prepositional case] 'me' vs /me/ [1sg clitic], and in 3rd person clitics
Accusative /lo(s), la(s) /vs Dative /le(s)
/Thus/, /in//Sp.///Me ha visto a mi /'(s)he has seen me', the object is
expressed by 1sg clitic /me/, the preposition /a/, and the
non-Nominative /mi
/A//3rd person accusative clitic is compatible with an /a/-marked
Directo Object in the same clause (this is a common pattern in some
varieties of Spanish, mainly Buenos Aires Sp., and less common in other
varieties):
/La he visto a Maria /
3.ACC.F have seen PREP Maria
'I have seen Maria'/
/
This example has "both the accusative case [in the clitic /la/] and an
analytical direct object marker [preposition /a/]", but the accusative
case is not in the name /Maria./
All best,
Jose M. Garcia-Miguel
University of Vigo
El 26/05/2013 11:53, Paolo Ramat escribió:
> Dear All,
> DOM as obligatory marking of Direct Object (DO) is a well-known
> feature of (South)Italian dialects and other Romance varieties (e.g.
> Catalan)
> I wouldn’t consider/Ich gehe durch den Gang/ as an ex. of DO. As
> Sergey rightly states, we have here a PP specifying the notion of ‘gehen’.
> But when you have /Ho visto _a_/ /Maria/ ‘I saw Mary’ instead of
> standard Italian /Ho visto Maria,/ Catal/. //les mongesno estimen _a_
> les nenes/‘the nuns don’t lik the girls’, /a/ is a real DO marker and
> the construction is Nomin./Accus. The use of DOM is subject to certain
> constraints: the OBJ has to be [+human] or, at least,
> [+anim],[+definite] etc.
> References: A. Ledgeway, /From Latin to Romance/, OUP 2012.Iemmolo,
> Giorgio (2009), La marcatura differenziale dell’oggetto in siciliano
> antico./Arch. Glottol. Ital./94: 185-225; Iemmolo, Giorgioand Gerson
> Klumpp (in preparation). /Differential Object Marking: theoretical and
> empirical issues/. Special issue of /Linguistics/.
> All best
> Paolo
> *From:* Sergey Lyosov <mailto:sergelyosov at INBOX.RU>
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 25, 2013 9:20 PM
> *To:* LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
> <mailto:LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG>
> *Subject:* Re: accusative + analytical DO markers
>
> Dear Ewa,
>
> thanks a lot!
>
> Your Polish example is as follows:
>
> - /zaatakować/‘attack, assault’ + NPACC
>
> - /napaść/‘attack, assault’ + preposition/na/with a NPACC (a
> grammaticalized allative construction).
>
> The cognate Russian verbs have the same government:
>
> atakovat' ‘attack, assault’ + NPACC
>
> napast' ‘attack, assault’ + preposition/na/with a NPACC
>
> Our colleague Scott T. Shell suggests me (within this thread) a
> similar example from
>
> German:
>
> Den Mann habe ich gesehen.
>
> DEF.ACC man AUX 1SG.NOM saw
>
> 'I say the man.'
>
> Ich gehe durch den Gang
>
> 1SG.NOM go through DEF.ACC hallway
>
> 'I go through the hallway.'
>
> Yet neither Polish/Russian /na/nor German durch are Direct Object
> Markers pure and simple, they both retain their meanings as
> lative/locative prepositions. What I am looking for is a “pure” and
> (under certain conditions) obligatory Direct Object Marker (like `et
> in Hebrew) which synchronically has no other (more concrete) meanings.
> I wonder if this kind of DOM is at all compatible with ACC (which
> would amount to double marking of the Direct Object).
>
> I will address your Coptic example in the next email.
>
> All best,
>
> Sergey
>
>
>
> Суббота, 25 мая 2013, 16:37 UTC от "Zakrzewska, E.D."
> <E.D.Zakrzewska at uva.nl>:
>
> Dear Sergey,
>
> A good example is Polish, compare:
>
> -/zaatakować/‘attack, assault’ + NPACC
>
> -/napaść/‘attack, assault’ + preposition /na /with a NPACC (a
> grammaticalized allative construction).
>
> Another example may be Coptic (Afroasiatic, the final stage of
> Ancient Egyptian). In Coptic there are two strategies to mark the
> direct object: head-marking and dependent-marking. Head-marking
> involves the use of the so-called construct or pronominal state
> allomorph of the verb to which a nominal, respectively pronominal
> direct object is attached. When the verb appears in the absolute
> state allomorph, dependent-marking of the object by means of a
> preposition is required. Several prepositions can occur in this
> function, of which /n-/ (dedicated preposition) and /e-/
> (grammaticalization of the allative) are most important.
>
> Basic information about Coptic grammar can be found in Reintges
> C.H., /Coptic Egyptian (Sahidic dialect): a learner's grammar/,
> Köln: Köppe, 2004. I’m currently working on a comprehensive
> article on transitivity in Coptic, to be published in the
> /Proceedings of the 10th International Congress of Coptic Studies
> in Rome/ and I can send you a copy soon.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Ewa Zakrzewska
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Van:* Discussion List for ALT [LINGTYP at listserv.linguistlist.org]
> namens Sergey Lyosov [sergelyosov at inbox.ru]
> *Verzonden:* vrijdag 24 mei 2013 19:35
> *To:* LINGTYP at listserv.linguistlist.org
> *Onderwerp:* accusative + analytical DO markers
>
> Dear colleagues,
> Do we know of languages that have both the accusative case and
> analytical direct object markers (pre- or postpositions)?
>
> Lots of thanks,
> Sergey
>
> Dr. Sergey Loesov
> Oriental Institute
> Russian State University for the Humanities
> 6 Miusskaya pl. Moscow 125267, Russia.
>
>
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