[Lingtyp] Verbs of success with dative subject

[Eitan Grossman]

Hi all,
Hebrew also has such constructions, although I imagine there are analyses
in which these are not non-canonical subjects. With the lexical verb 'to
succeed', you have a contrast between (a) and (b):

(a) Nuʁit hitsliχ-a (b-a-mivχan)
 Nurit succeed.PST-3sgf (on-the-test)
'Nurit did well (on the test).'

(b) (Nuʁit...) hitsliaχ l-a (b-a-mivχan)
(Nurit...) succeed.PST.3sgm DAT-3sgf (on-the-test)
'She succeeded/it went well for her (on the test).'

(Interestingly, I don't know if "to fail" participates in the same
alternation. While I wouldn't say niχʃal l-a [fail.PST.3sgm DAT-3sgf], I
wouldn't rule it out as a possibility, and I can imagine some contexts in
which it would be ok. In any event, it isn't conventionalized to the same
extent as the "succeed" pair.)

There are also multiple constructions in which datives participate in the
domain of "doing well/succeeding" or the opposite. As an example:

(c) halaχ l-a (tov/ʁa)
go.PST.3sgm DAT-3sgf (good/bad)
'It went well/badly for her.'

Again, I'm not sure how Hebrew specialists would analyze these, because the
analysis of the dative is pretty contentious.

Best,
Eitan


Eitan Grossman
Senior Lecturer, Department of Linguistics/School of Language Sciences
Hebrew University of Jerusalem
Tel: +972 2 588 3809
Fax: +972 2 588 1224


On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 12:33 AM Jussi Ylikoski <jussi.ylikoski at oulu.fi>
wrote:

> Dear all,
>
>
>
> Here is a non-IE example from North Saami (Uralic), disregarding the
> probable influence from its Scandinavian neighbors. ILL stands for the
> illative, the case for Direction and Recipient, which could be (and earlier
> has been) labeled "dative" as well:
>
>
>
> Midjiide/Johanii   lihkostuvai     buot.
>
> 1PL.ILL/Johan.ILL  succeed.PST.3SG all
>
> 'We/Johan succeeded in everything.'
>
> (cf. Norwegian *Alt lykkes for oss/Johan*.)
>
>
>
> Unlike in Scandinavian, a dummy subject usually does not occur:
>
>
>
> Midjiide/Johanii   ii      lihkostuvvan     oažžut  oktavuođa   duinna.
>
> 1PL.ILL/Johan.ILL  NEG.3SG succeed.PST.PTCP get.INF contact.ACC 2SG.ACC
>
> 'We/Johan didn't succeed in contacting you.'
>
> (cf. Norwegian *Det lyktes ikke for oss/Johan å ta kontakt med deg*.)
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Jussi
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *Fra:* Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> på vegne av E.
> Bashir <ebashir at yahoo.com>
> *Sendt:* onsdag 2. januar 2019 22.11
> *Til:* Ludwig Paul; lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
> *Emne:* Re: [Lingtyp] Verbs of success with dative subject
>
> ِIn Urdu, for a person to be successful in doing something can be
> expressed as:
>
> X-ko                  Y-me~        kaamyaabii huii
> X (person)-DAT Y(effort)-in success      became
> Y was successful in (doing) Y.
>
> With best wishes,
> Elena Bashir, Senior Lecturer in Urdu
> The University of Chicago
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Ludwig Paul <ludwig.paul at uni-hamburg.de>
> *To:* lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 2, 2019 1:46 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Lingtyp] Verbs of success with dative subject
>
> Dear Spike,
>
> I could not find the discussion or the answers to your question in the
> list, maybe this is a repetition: there is the German verbal
> expression "mir (Dat.) gelingt etwas", i.e. I am successful in (doing)
> sth.
>
> Best,
> Ludwig
>
> Zitat von Spike Gildea <spike at uoregon.edu>:
>
> > Dear colleagues,
> >
> > I forward a query from my colleague, Jóhanna Barðdal, who is looking
> > for examples of predicates of "success” with non canonical subject
> > marking, in particular those that take a dative subject.
> >
> > We are working on Indo-European verbs/predicates with the meanings
> > 'succeed', 'be successful', 'make progress', 'turn out well', 'go
> > well'. The last one in the sense "he is doing well in his dance
> > class" or even "he is doing well in life”.
> >
> > Thank you in advance for indications of other places in the world
> > where we might find such predicates taking a dative subject!
> >
> > Best,
> > Spike
>
>
>
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