[Lingtyp] Query: Elided Intensification

David Gil gil at shh.mpg.de
Mon Apr 12 11:35:01 UTC 2021


Thanks for this, Pier Marco.  I would note, however, that in my own two 
native languages, English and Hebrew, AS and HOW are expressed with 
different forms (as opposed to a single polysemous form).  And both 
English and Hebrew have a construction similar to the Italian, but one 
that makes use of the HOW word, not the AS word:  English /... and 
how!/  Hebrew /... veʕod ex!/ (and:more how).  This seems to me to 
diminish the similarity between the Italian /Sei felice? Eccome!/ and 
the Australian English /sweet as/ construction.  Though I admit that 
there may still be some distant resemblance.

David


On 12/04/2021 14:19, Pier Marco Bertinetto wrote:
> Frans's comment made me realize that one has the same in Italian:
> "Come" is a comparative marker (an equalizer):
> Gino è alto come Piero
> 'G. is as tall as P.'
> But then one has "eccome" (< "e come" 'and as') which is an intensifier:
> Sei felice? Eccome!
> 'Are you happy? Very much!'
> It may also be turned into a question: "eccome no?" 'how could it be 
> otherwise?', which retains much of the original comparative meaning.
> Best
> Pier Marco
>
>
> Il giorno lun 12 apr 2021 alle ore 11:10 Frans Plank 
> <frans.plank at uni-konstanz.de <mailto:frans.plank at uni-konstanz.de>> ha 
> scritto:
>
>
>
>
>
>     Und wie, Guillaume!  (Which is German.)
>
>     Frans
>>
>>
>>     Le 12/04/2021 à 00:35, David Gil a écrit :
>>>
>>>     Thanks to those who have responded to my query so far, either to
>>>     me personally or on the list.
>>>
>>>     I'd like to clarify what I had in mind by "elided" or
>>>     "incomplete".  I am using these terms grammatically /
>>>     semantically, to express the intuition that there's something
>>>     missing after the intensifier, given that forms such as Papuan
>>>     Malay /sampe/ and (Australian) English /as/ usually occur in
>>>     construction with another, following expression (or "complement").
>>>
>>>     I was not implying that the construction in question should
>>>     "sound incomplete" (to use Ilana's words below).  But it's
>>>     interesting that she characterizes the Australian English /as/
>>>     construction as being associated with a "particular intonation",
>>>     since the same is true also for the Papuan Malay construction
>>>     with /sampe/.  Though the specifics of the intonation contour
>>>     seem to differ (in Papuan Malay, the peak of the contour falls
>>>     on the preceding word, while the intensifier /sampe/ is
>>>     associated with low pitch, sounding like an afterthought).
>>>
>>>     David
>>>
>>>
>>>     On 12/04/2021 00:58, Ilana Mushin wrote:
>>>>     I can also confirm ‘sweet as’ in Australian English. I’ve seen
>>>>     it on advertising billboards. I think the construction ‘X as’
>>>>     can be somewhat productive - eg I’ve certainly heard ‘dumb
>>>>     as’.  There is a particular intonation that goes with the
>>>>     construction - the ‘as’ is lengthened  and has a rise-fall
>>>>     contour so it doesn’t sound incomplete (this is impressionistic
>>>>     - someone may have a better idea of the prosody than me).
>>>>
>>>>     Ilana
>>>>
>>>>     Associate Professor Ilana Mushin
>>>>
>>>>     Reader in Linguistics
>>>>
>>>>     President, Australian Linguistic Society
>>>>
>>>>     /var/folders/lv/m77kqy0n4x1_rcd3pk0j2n900000gq/T/com.microsoft.Outlook/WebArchiveCopyPasteTempFiles/il.pb.pngCo-Editor,
>>>>     /Interactional Linguistics/ (https://benjamins.com/catalog/il
>>>>     <https://benjamins.com/catalog/il>)
>>>>
>>>>     School of Languages and Cultures
>>>>
>>>>     University of Queensland
>>>>
>>>>     St Lucia, QLD 4072.
>>>>
>>>>     Ph: (07) 3365 6810 <tel:(07)%203365%206810>
>>>>
>>>>     CRICOS Provider No: 00025B
>>>>
>>>>     *I acknowledge the Jagera and Turrbal peoples on whose land I
>>>>     live and work. Their sovereignty was never ceded.*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>     On 12 Apr 2021, at 5:27 am, David Gil <gil at shh.mpg.de>
>>>>>     <mailto:gil at shh.mpg.de> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>     Dear all,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     I'm interested in exploring the properties and geographical
>>>>>     distribution of a novel (well, to me at least) construction
>>>>>     type which might be termed "Elided Intensification'.I'll
>>>>>     explain with an example.In Papuan Malay, property-denoting and
>>>>>     some other words may be intensified by the addition of
>>>>>     /sampe/, a word whose other, more basic functions, include
>>>>>     'arrive' and 'until', e.g.
>>>>>
>>>>>     (1) Enak sampe
>>>>>
>>>>>     nice SAMPE
>>>>>
>>>>>     'Very nice.'
>>>>>
>>>>>     My informal "interpretation" of this construction is that it
>>>>>     involves, or at least originated in, some kind of understood
>>>>>     expression such as "nice arriving (at complete fulfillment)",
>>>>>     or "nice until (completion)".As Papuan Malay is largely
>>>>>     head-initial, it kind of feels like something is missing after
>>>>>     the word /sampe/.(In Malay/Indonesian, this construction seems
>>>>>     to be restricted geographically to the north coast of New
>>>>>     Guinea and possibly also Northern Maluku; elsewhere it is absent.)
>>>>>
>>>>>     So far, I am familiar with two other potential cases of Elided
>>>>>     Intensification.The first is from Ambel, an Austronesian
>>>>>     language spoken in the Raja Ampat archipelago of the northwest
>>>>>     coast of New Guinea, in a region where Papuan Malay is also
>>>>>     spoken.As described by Arnold (2018:145, pers comm), /aya/
>>>>>     'until' is used in a construction closely resembling that in (1):
>>>>>
>>>>>     (2) Anlómo aya
>>>>>
>>>>>     bleed.3SG.INAN AYA
>>>>>
>>>>>     ‘It bled a lot.’
>>>>>
>>>>>     Arnold, Laura. 2018./A Grammar of Ambel, An Austronesian
>>>>>     Language of West New Guinea/. PhD Dissertation.Edinburgh:
>>>>>     University of Edinburgh.
>>>>>
>>>>>     The second example, which I just came across, and which
>>>>>     prompted this query, is Australian English.In the Wikipedia
>>>>>     entry for Australian English, in a paragraph which deals with
>>>>>     the infensification of adjectives, the following rather
>>>>>     tantalizing passage occurs:
>>>>>
>>>>>     "In informal speech, incomplete comparisons are sometimes
>>>>>     used, such as "sweet as" (as in "That car is sweet as.")."
>>>>>
>>>>>     So here it's comparative 'as' rather than 'arrive'/'until'
>>>>>     that comes after the word being intensified, but still, all
>>>>>     these cases seem to involve intensification with the elision
>>>>>     of some kind of argument associated with the property word and
>>>>>     denoting an extreme extent of the property in question.
>>>>>
>>>>>     My questions:
>>>>>
>>>>>     1.Could speakers of Australian English please confirm the
>>>>>     existence of this construction, and comment on it.Does it
>>>>>     occur in other varieties of English?(It was certainly
>>>>>     completely new to me!)
>>>>>
>>>>>     2.Is anybody familiar with possible cases of Elided
>>>>>     Intensification in other languages, in Australia, New Guinea
>>>>>     or elsewhere?On the flimsy basis of three examples, it looks
>>>>>     like an Australian / New Guinea areal feature: is this the
>>>>>     case?For the Australia / New Guinea region I'd also appreciate
>>>>>     negative data, of the form "no, my language definitely doesn't
>>>>>     do this".
>>>>>
>>>>>     3.Any further comments and suggestions ...
>>>>>
>>>>>     Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>>     David
>>>>>
>>>>>     -- 
>>>>>     David Gil
>>>>>       
>>>>>     Senior Scientist (Associate)
>>>>>     Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
>>>>>     Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
>>>>>     Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
>>>>>       
>>>>>     Email:gil at shh.mpg.de  <mailto:gil at shh.mpg.de>
>>>>>     Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
>>>>>     Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091
>>>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>>>     Lingtyp mailing list
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>>>>>     http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>>>>>     <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp>
>>>     -- 
>>>     David Gil
>>>       
>>>     Senior Scientist (Associate)
>>>     Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
>>>     Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
>>>     Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
>>>       
>>>     Email:gil at shh.mpg.de  <mailto:gil at shh.mpg.de>
>>>     Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
>>>     Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091
>>>
>>>     _______________________________________________
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>>
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> -- 
> =========================================================
>                ||||            Pier Marco  Bertinetto
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-- 
David Gil
  
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
  
Email: gil at shh.mpg.de
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091

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