[Lingtyp] Term needed

[Nigel Vincent]

Dear Christian et al,
I entirely agree (and not just for reasons of personal modesty!) that if you are to use a term based on vincere then victive is preferable - cf also factive not facientive.
However, on a more serious note, I feel it is necessary to emphasise that my LT article was about the various uses of the term conative not all of which seem to involve a notion of trying. My reference in the context of Tom's original request was to a section of that article which deals with concepts adjacent to simply trying. I would not propose, pace Paolo, conative for those constructions which involve trying and succeeding, i.e. the 'manage to do' type, and which Larochette calls capacitatif.
Best
Nigel

Professor Nigel Vincent, FBA MAE
Professor Emeritus of General & Romance Linguistics
The University of Manchester

Linguistics & English Language
School of Arts, Languages and Cultures
The University of Manchester



https://www.research.manchester.ac.uk/portal/en/researchers/nigel-vincent(f973a991-8ece-453e-abc5-3ca198c869dc).html
________________________________
From: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of Christian Lehmann <christian.lehmann at uni-erfurt.de>
Sent: 14 May 2023 5:47 PM
To: lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>; tpayne at uoregon.edu <tpayne at uoregon.edu>
Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Term needed

Dear Tom,

I can see that you have already received relevant answers to your question that may also solve your terminological problem. Anyway, just a side-remark on the latter:

The term conative that was suggested does not appear to quite match the function that you described. The conatives that I know indicate (in consonance with the meaning of Latin conari) an action that was tried, whereas you require a term for an action that finally succeeded.

I am, of course, far from objecting against the idea of naming a grammatical category after our esteemed colleague Nigel. As we all know, this is an well-established naming procedure in other disciplines such as biology.  However, if the idea was to name it based on the Latin verb vincere, the term would be victive, not vincentive. Compare perfective, not perficientive.

Apologies for making fuss over minor matters, with my best wishes,
Christian

________________________________
Von: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org><mailto:lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> im Auftrag von Tom Payne <tpayne at uoregon.edu><mailto:tpayne at uoregon.edu>
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. Mai 2023 21:04
An: lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org<mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
Cc: Voltaire Oyzon
Betreff: [Lingtyp] Term needed


Greetings. We have recently come across two constructions in a Philippine language that we need a good term for. These are morphosyntactic constructions involving a dependent verb form and unusual case marking. The meaning of both constructions is that the actor accomplished the activity after overcoming some obstacle. With one construction, the obstacle is understood as internal/psychological, while with the other the obstacle is more external. Translation into English is challenging, but the senses lie somewhere in the areas of “be able to VERB” and “manage to VERB”, though there is a distinct abilitive construction. We are considering the term “vincentive” for these constructions, based on the Latin verb vincere. We would appreciate any and all suggestions on this term, or other possibilities. Also, if anyone else has encountered such a construction, we would very much like to hear about it.

Thank you.

Tom Payne and Voltaire Oyzon



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