LL-L "Language varieties" 2009.06.10 (01) [DE-NDS]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 10 June 2009 - Volume 01
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Language Codes: lowlands-l.net/codes.php
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From: Roger Hondshoven <rhondshoven at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2009.06.08 (06) [EN]

Hello Diederik,

I haven't noticed this trend of equalizing the neutre forms to the feminine
declension by adding -n in young people's speech..

Roger Hondshoven
Diest (East-Brabant) Belgium

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From: Roger Hondshoven <rhondshoven at yahoo.com>
 Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2009.06.05 (08) [EN]

Hi Diederik,

A couple of days ago I sent you a mail pertaining to the inversed verbal
forms 2nd person. One part went like this:

"I did take exception at your claim (based on Weijnen's conviction that "the
far south-east of Vlaams-Brabant does not have the -de ending in the
2ndperson and
I ". This is pertinently incorrect as I know firsthand. I was born and
raised in Tienen, but my mother originated from Melkwezer, a small village
in the exact centre of  'Getelands', which is spoken in a region somewhat
west of the river Grote Gete to the  Kleine Gete (Diest is not in this
region). I know the language of this region. So I spoke Tienslearnt my
mother's dialect. You can take my word for it  when I say that ' contrary to
what Weijnen claims, the enclitic -de is used in all of this Getelands . In
all of Getelands but not in Tienen and Hoegaarden (and perhaps in a few
adjacent villages of Tienen like Kumtich an Hakendover. For decades I
haven't lived in Tienen, but when I, rarely,   meet old friends from Tienen
I speak Tiens.With relatives from Melkwezer, whom I see more often, I speak
their dialect. So in these circumstances I use the enclitic -de myself. "

I'm sorry to say this description of the situation was not quite correct and
not complete. I was a bit distracted by what you pointed out on thesituation
in Brabantish. Let me put things right. Getelands is a very special case.
It's a transitional area between Barantish and Limburgish in which western
(Brabantish) and eastern elements vie with one another for supremacy.
Weijnen is partly right when he states that Getelands "does not have
the -deending in the 2
nd person". Indeed, we must distinguish between 2 inversed verbal forms in
Getelands (except in Tienen) :
a. the somewhat emphatic form gade gij, which is actually a mixed form:
'gade' being 2nd person singular combined with 'gij' which is in fact an
historical 2nd person plural pronoun. So there Weijnen got it wrong.
b. the weak form with -er, e.g. doeder 'doe je', /göder/ 'ga je'. This -er
originated from *ir, German ihr, Old High German  ir, which is clearly
plural, and unmistakably an eastern element . In this cas Weijnen hit the
nail.

I'm sorry I got you on the wrong track.

 Roger Hondshoven
Diest (East-Brabant) Belgium

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 From: Hannelore Hinz  <HanneHinz at t-online.de>
Subject: missingsch

Hallo liebe Freunde!

Fritz Reuter. Ut mine Stromtid. Inspekter *Broesig *kümmt ut de Waterkunst
(Kur) un belihrt Hawermann in Waterangelegenheiten.
Fritz Reuter gelang hier *missingsch *literarisch zu gestalten. (H.Hinz)

Literatur: Jürgen Gundlach *Von Aant bis Zäg'*
*Unkel Broesig*. Der Leser denkt dabei sofort an seine eigentümliche
Sprechweise, an sein *Missingsch, *wie man dieses mit plattdeutschen Lauten
und Wörtern verquickte mangelhafte Hochdeutsch nennt. Über das Wort
*missingsch,
*das übrigens zunächst 'hochdeutsch im Gegensatz zur heimischen Mundart'
bedeutete, ist viel gerätselt worden. Professor Hermann Teuchert, der
langjährige frühere Herausgeber des Mecklenburgischen Wörterbuches, hält es
für erwiesen, daß *mißensch, missensch *'meißnisch' zu Grunde liegt, also
die ostdeutsche Benennung der hochdeutschen Literatursprache, wobei ein
zweites Wort *missingsch *'aus Messing' hineinspielte, welches ein
Mischmetall ist, wie das gesorpchene *Missingsch*  eine Mischsprache.

Kurt Tucholsky. Missingsch und Plattdeutsch.
Missingsch ist das, was herauskommt, wenn ein Plattdeutscher hochdeutsch
sprechen will. Er krabbelt auf der glatt gebohnerten Treppe der deutschen
Grammatik empor und rutscht alle Nase lang wieder in sein geliebtes Platt
zurück.
Aus 'Mecklenburg *Ein Gästebuch*'
Herausgegeben von Ulrich Bentzien Hinstorff Verlag Rostock 1980
Anmerkung: Prof. Dr. Ulrich Bentzien 19.12.1987 verstorben. Die menschliche
Wärme, die in Wort und Schrift von diesem Mann ausging, bleibt allen denen
unvergessen, die ihm begegnet sind.(Wir kannten uns.)

Broesig: "...aber gut is sie doch: der Mensch kriegt en ganzen andern
Glauben.... und hier, Korl (Hagemann) hab ich dir auch ein Wasserbuch
mitgebracht, da kannst du dir's Winterabends in den Wissenschaften mit
belernen."

Von mir die besten Grüße.
Hanne

•

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