AW: comparison of lifelike drawings, word description and SW -spell ing- Grace A

Stefan Woehrmann stefanwoehrmann at GEBAERDENSCHRIFT.DE
Sat Feb 28 20:27:38 UTC 2004

Hi Bill,

no problem  - we can perform whatever we want and we can write as accurately
as we want - smile

Do you think that a video of this sign in a context of a prayer would give
any proof that there is a pure rotation movement without traveling at
first - and after the endposition is reached -back of hand upside ?, thumb -
fingertips-contact - and after a minimum pause the fingers will spread and
the hand will move down ...

You see - I am no expert on ASL (smile) - but the interesting thing is that
we can improve our spelling skills to express in the written SW-document the
movement that is on our mind, or that is videotaped and waiting for the
interpretation of the viewer --

Can you offer your SW - suggestion  ??

  -----Urspr ÿÿ gliche Nachricht-----
  Von: SignWriting List [mailto:SW-L at ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA]Im Auftrag von Bill
  Gesendet: Samstag, 28. Februar 2004 16:18
  Betreff: Re: comparison of lifelike drawings, word description and
SW -spell ing- Grace A

  I sent this to Stefan directly by mistake.  Reposting here..  Bill ...


  I'd like to comment on the rotation movement.  From what it looks like in
Grace A, there is a rotation movement first and then the transition between
the first handshape and the second.   That seems to be consistant with the
concept of grace turning toward a person first and then being bestowed.  In
that context, I would deem the movement very important.


  Stefan Woehrmann wrote:

    Hi Tini, Valerie and list members,

    great to hear from you - and thank you very much for your spelling -
discussion  -

    I bet all of us can learn a lot from this -

    First of all - it is good to concentrate on writing a given movement -
so we do not discuss different variations of a sign in any SL but just on
how to write the given hand shapes, movements --

    (Hi Valerie, Charles, friend from Japan .. remember our wonderful
workshop on video transcription of the Markus evangelium , unfortunately we
ended too soon ....;-)) but I learned a lot from that...)

    What is so interesting to me in these spelling discussions is that
different people look and identify different aspects - of the  important
parameters -
    SW can be written much more precisely - compared to drawings, movies,
word descriptions ...

    On the other hand  - ask 5 Deaf native signers and ask them to sign the
same sign and you definitely will find differences in their performance ...
that can be written in SW
    Even one and the same signer will perform the same sign on 7 days
differently .... ;-))

    Hi Tini -
    Look at your attached graphic - lifelike drawing of your Grace(A)  and
Grace (B)

    I refer to the Sutton-Symbol-Sequence 2002 - this way you know what hand
shape I am talking about! ( Great job - Valerie!!)

    Looking at the description  in words - you get the idea of a hand shape
like SSS 01-05-025 (Oval)  (thumb touching the (=all) fingertips - the
drawing on the other hand looks more like  01- 05 - 020 (Circle)
    The explanation says : " The hand seems to take from God ... )
Therefore - the author thinks obviously of a hinge- movement - which might
end in hand shape - hand shape - 01-05-030  (Angel) ...
    (You decided to start with this hand shape .... )

    now second phase-

    "spreading the fingers and moving down - " - you decided to choose
symbol 01-05-003  (5 Fingers Bent = claw-hand)

    well the drawing shows fingers that are not bent ??? perhaps 01 - 05 -
005  (5 Fingers cup) or more likely  01 - 05 - 006 5 Fingers Hinge

    what about hand-orientation -

    the text says .. "shower it down..." Perhaps the focus could be on back
of hand upside ?? instead of palm facing ?? What do you think??

    What about eye gaze ? Both of the signers look straight ahead . but is
this indented or just a matter of how to produce lots of lifelike drawings
with a given set of faces ... ??
    I rather would expect an eye gaze diagonal upwards ...

    I agree - with Valerie  - I try to avoid additional movement arrows if
the starting position and the end position defines what has to happen to get
there ;-)))
    So in this case as well - no additional rotation movement - symbol

    Perhaps you or other list members are interested to create some other
spellings of this posted - lifelike - drawing with text - illustration - In
the end we will see that it is worth to understand that the best way to
communicate about movement is not a video, a life-like drawing or a
description by words but a spelling with an extraordinary movement writing
system  - like SW -

    Have a great day


    PS -I attached Your illustration once more  .....  Are you interested in
a discussion about your second spelling? Grace B???

      -----Urspr ÿÿ gliche Nachricht-----
      Von: SignWriting List [mailto:SW-L at ADMIN.HUMBERC.ON.CA]Im Auftrag von
Tini Pel
      Gesendet: Freitag, 27. Februar 2004 16:37
      Betreff: SW. Grace

      Hello Valerie and list,
      Well here is my try-out of writing both signs of Grace in S.W. See
previous message.



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