mixing planes

Sat Nov 29 17:14:00 UTC 2008

But the hand can be wall plane but move floor plane, and visa-versa.  Sign PUSH--  hand is wall plane, movement is floor plane.  Sign GROW-UP--  hand is floor plane, movement is wall plane.  Granted neither of those is movement to the side, but mixing of planes WILL happen, and not just occasionally.

________________________________
From: KJ <kjoanne403 at signwriting.org>
To: SignWriting List <sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 11:27:16 PM
Subject: Re: [sw-l] Movement to the side

I feel the same way, Stefan - I always write single 
stemmed arrows for side-to-side movement.  But it is interesting what Andre 
had to say... I didn't think about connecting the single-stemmed arrows with 
floor plane handshapes and double-stemmed arrows with wall plane 
handshapes.  It makes sense to me, though!  And if the kids feel it is 
easier to read when the arrow stems match the handshape plane, then maybe we 
should think about adopting that as a convention... 

KJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Stefan Wöhrmann 
To: 'SignWriting List' 
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 10:42  AM
Subject: AW: [sw-l] Movement to the  side

Hi Andrè, 

I agree with Adams  comment – it doesn’t matter. – smile – From my point of view – I prefer single  stemmed arrows if the movement is directly to the left or right side. But this  attitude developed over time – I guess it is a matter of clear structure .. . 

Sometimes I hesitate  if I should vote for top – down or frontview  if a  handorientation  allows  both options ... and in the past we discussed this point that  almost always both hands in a sign should be written – (if possible) from the  same point of view ( both hands top down, or both hands front view) But even  here I decide to violate this “principle” if anything seems to prevent the  reader to understand intuitively and alost without any hesitation. 

So – my opinion –  left and right movement – (if they are meant to be straight to the left and  straight to the right)   c a n   be written with both  arrows ( double stemmed and sinle stemmed) but in these cases I always vote  for the single stemmed arrows.

Stefan ;-) 

________________________________

Von:sw-l-bounces at majordomo.valenciacc.edu  [mailto:sw-l-bounces at majordomo.valenciacc.edu] Im Auftrag von Gagnon et  Thibeault
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 27. November 2008 18:04
An: SignWriting List
Betreff: Re: [sw-l] Movement to the  side

Hi Adam and  everyone,

     Yes, (A) and (B) are correct or the same.  But Deaf students'thinking is  different from your thinking.  For example, Deaf students develop a  phonological analysis for different SW symbols (hand on the floor or wall  plane and single-stemmed arrow (floor plane) and double-stemmed arrow (wall  plane)).  Deaf students found that they are more comfortable to read (B)  than (A) because of the same wall planes.  It is very important  for me to understand how to acquire and learn a phonological analysis for Deaf  kids, not Deaf adults.  For example, a Deaf kid who is 7 years old is  able to read (B) more easy than (A) according to Deaf  teacher.

     I don't doubt that older kids are able to read either (A) and (B) than younger  kids.

     Regards,

     André

----- Original Message ----- 
From:Adam Frost 
To:SignWriting List 
Sent:Thursday, November 27, 2008 11:03 AM
Subject:Re:  [sw-l] Movement to the side

The difference between using the single stem arrow  and double stem for side movements is just writers preference. Either is  still correct. So (A) and (B) are the same. (C) and (D) have the hands on  the floor plane which is different from (A) and (B). I am not surprise that  the deaf students are talking about floor and wall planes.  ;-)

Adam

On Nov 27, 2008, at 7:15  AM, "Gagnon et Thibeault" <atg at videotron.ca>  wrote:
Hi Val, Adam,  Stefan and everyone,

     It is interesting that Deaf students talked about a front view and a top  view.

     See my attached diagram.  This is my writing (A) (DEFENDRE (French) =  INTERDICT (English).  Deaf students are confused to read it because  they stopped reading and figured out it.  Several Deaf students  explained that the two hands are parallel with the front wall (front  view), and the movement to the side with the single-stemmed arrows is  viewed from the floor (top view).   They suggested that the two  hands are parallel with the front wall (front view), and the movement to  the side with the double-stemmed arrows is viewed from the front  wall (front view) (See the attached diagram (B) because Deaf students  read it easily (the same front view).  They told Deaf teacher if they  use the two hands which are parallel with the floor, they use the  movement to the side with the single-stemmed arrows whhich is viewed from  the floor (top view) (See the attached diagram (C).  They don't want  to use (D) since they aren't conformtable to read  it.

     I can't believe that Deaf students understand a concept of the front view  and the top view.

     I adopt Deaf  students'proposal.

     Regards,

     André

<SW  DEFENDRE.doc>

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