invisible person in ASL storytelling...

[Bill Reese]

Charles,
I think you're dealing with two different issues here.  On the one hand, 
a standard needs to be applied to writing used as a communication tool.  
On the other, for linguistic study it has been said on this list to 
transcribe what you see.

Since communication is both receptive and expressive, a standard has to 
be set and the expressive was chosen as the best standard for everyday 
writing.   I'm sure some could argued that receptive would be better.  
But then, how would you transcribe signs you make yourself?   You'd have 
to mirror-image it if you would be true to the concept of transcribing 
what you see.  But you don't, because you are aware of what you are 
saying and it can even be written without going through the mechanism of 
actually making the sign.  And so, the expressive viewpoint in writing 
may actually never be expressed by your hands.  Yet the sign is still 
written.

However, if you were doing a linguistic study, there is no expressive 
viewpoint.  It's all receptive.  It isn't until you try to turn what is 
learned from the study into a communication medium that you have to deal 
with expression.  Then it comes full circle to needing to decide on 
standards. 

Remember, many years ago you argued against me - when I first joined 
this list - for putting forth the possibility of writing the palm 
portion of hands as ovals instead of squares, as you said that it had 
been already standardized as squares.

Everyday writing as a communication medium has already been standardized 
on the expressive viewpoint.   ;-)

Bill


Gerard Meijssen wrote:
> Hoi,
> Indeed it is relatively easy to reverse what you see. However, 
> SignWriting is a script and it works only when everyone reads it in 
> the same way.
> Thanks,
>      GerardM
>
> 2009/9/17 Charles Butler <chazzer3332000 at yahoo.com 
> <mailto:chazzer3332000 at yahoo.com>>
>
>     Looking at videos makes me ponder why we don't teach both
>     projective and receptive sign writing.  Looking at a video and
>     then the sign writing next to it, they don't match, they are
>     reverse images of each other and it drives one crazy to stop, put
>     it on one's own hands, and put the facing image there.  Trying to
>     compare them is apples to oranges.
>
>     Sign writing is 3-dimensional, and when I was taught it, you
>     literally wrote what you saw.  Your right hand is your right hand,
>     a photo's right hand is to your left.  
>
>     With all of SW in a computer program, it could be made to reverse
>     everything relatively easily.  
>
>     Charles
>
>
>     --- On *Wed, 9/16/09, Valerie Sutton /<sutton at signwriting.org
>     <mailto:sutton at signwriting.org>>/* wrote:
>
>
>         From: Valerie Sutton <sutton at signwriting.org
>         <mailto:sutton at signwriting.org>>
>         Subject: Re: [sw-l] invisible person in ASL storytelling...
>         To: "SignWriting List" <sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu
>         <mailto:sw-l at majordomo.valenciacc.edu>>
>         Cc: "Jonita Juhala" <josignj at aol.com <mailto:josignj at aol.com>>
>         Date: Wednesday, September 16, 2009, 6:06 PM
>
>         SignWriting List
>         September 16, 2009
>
>         Hi Jonita.
>
>         Rather than writing a second imaginary person (which has only
>         been "implied" on the video, but is not really there)...just
>         write how the signer tried to explain that imaginary
>         person..These are complex videos to transcribe and I admire
>         your courage!
>
>         Write exactly what you think you see the signer do...but don't
>         worry about the meaning of the "imaginary person"...
>
>         Please see attached... In this writing I showed that the
>         signer is facing the corner, and he brushes his own tongue,
>         and then pretends to brush another person's tongue in "the
>         middle of the air"...The tension symbol helps give the feeling
>         of the movement...
>
>
>
>
>         -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
>
>
>
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