[Sw-l] A question regarding how to write the right index finger touching a part of the left hand's palm and fingers

Sun Sep 5 18:12:25 UTC 2021

SignWriting List
September 5, 2021

Hello everyone on the SignWriting List.

And thank you, Sutthikhun (Ae), for writing Thai Sign Language Fingerspelling. First, if I understand properly, this beautiful chart maps the Consonants, but the vowels are not included in this chart:

So now, writing the vowels is the next task. Do you want to write Thai vowels very accurately like a research project and show every detail? Or do you want to create an easy to read standard that would assume knowledge of the language? These are the questions that come up when you create fingerspelling standardizations. Two-hands on a key on a keyboard for example, can be fit in, but oftentimes the details become unreadable because there is so little space on the key, and when a person is typing fingerspelling, in a string horizontally or vertically, the two-handed vowels can take up more space than the other symbols.

None of this really matters right now, because you are developing the writing of each vowel, but later we can see if there can be a simplified version of the vowels.

That is why I mentioned the British Sign Language vowels - not because I thought the languages were the same, but simply that we worked hard at getting a simplification later, when we placed British Sign Language on a keyboard.

So regarding the details, you go ahead and write the Thai vowels exactly as the rules of the language dictates, and then show us a chart of Vowels.

If the Thai Fingerspelling rules dictate that the palm must face the reader, then place the left hand facing the reader - a white palm facing.

Regarding the writing you have attached below in SignWriting - let me write some ideas next message -

Thanks Ae! ;-)

Val ;-)

___________

> On Sep 1, 2021, at 11:23 AM, Sutthikhun Phaengphongsai <suttikunep at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone and thank you for your answer, Valerie!
> 
> 
> I have checked the examples you provided using British vowel fingerspelling (VF); however, they appear to be slightly different from Thai VF, as follows:
> 	• The left palm of the British VF does not need to face the observer, whereas the left palm of the Thai VF does.
> 
> 
> 	• Touching of fingertips and of finger-bases are differentiated in Thai VF, but there is only fingertip touching in British VF.
> 
> As a result, if the left palm is facing the observer, the black left Five Fingers Spread must be selected for expressive viewpoint, which the black color may obscure the writing while the right index finger touches the left palm's middle (I'm not sure whether these following writings are acceptable or not),
> 
> 
> or when the right index finger touches a left finger-base, some left fingers might be obscured, 
> 
> 
> or when a contact star is written on a finger-base, the star will be obscured.
> 
> So I'm curious whether there is any other way to make the Thai VF writing less ambiguous. Could Digit Location symbols be used to make this writing clearer? I don't know how to use them and I'm not sure if they're necessary.
> 
> Thanks in advance, 
> 
> Sutthikhun (Ae)
> 
> On Wed, 1 Sept 2021 at 05:13, Valerie Sutton <sutton at signwriting.org> wrote:
> SignWriting List
> August 31, 2021
> 
> Hi there,
> The use of the index finger to point to other fingers to show tone or vowels, exists in other sign language as well. One of the well-known examples is in British sign language. They have a two-handed alphabet and they use their index finger to Point to the tips of the fingers of the other hand to show the vowels. To type British fingerspelling we created a shorter way to write it by just using a contact star on the finger being pointed to for the vowels, but others wrote the details. Here are some examples:
> 
> British Fingerspelling Font iin SignWriting
> https://www.signwriting.org/catalog/sw214.html
> 
> British Fingerspelling Keyboard design for SignWriter DOS
> https://www.signwriting.org/forums/software/fingkeys/fkey044.html
> 
> https://www.signwriting.org/uk/GB04.html
> 
> So it just depends on how much room you have to write or type two hands versus one.
> 
> Val
> 
> -----
> 
>> On Aug 31, 2021, at 1:50 PM, Sutthikhun Phaengphongsai <suttikunep at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello SWList members!
>> 
>> Today I have a question regarding how to write the right index finger touching a part of the left hand's palm and fingers.
>> 	• ThaiSL fingerspelling for vowels, tone marks, and other symbols is shown in the photo and video link below. The right index finger is used to indicate a vowel or a tone mark of a syllable on a part of the left hand's palm or fingers.
>> 	• There appear to be symbols used in the SignMaker to write the detailed digit location, but I'm not clear how to use them since I couldn't find a description in the SW Textbook.
>> 	• So, which SW symbols should these gestures be written with, and how should they be written?
>> 
>> Link: https://youtu.be/6eLfibTBiZQ?t=717 (from 11:57)
>> 
>> Thank you so much in advance!
>> I look forward to receiving your responses, 
>> 
>> Sutthikhun Phaengphongsai
>> ________________________________________________
>> 

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