[Sw-l] The LIddell and Johnson Movement-Hold Model

Wed Jan 26 18:31:49 UTC 2022

SignWriting List
January 26, 2022

Hello Stefan!

It is so great that you posted this message. Wonderful to have your input!

You are right, we did not even start to discuss the mouth movements. Mundbilder in Gebaerdenschrift (mouth movments in SignWriting), and your special development of Mundbildschrift (Woehrmann’s SpeechWriting), are two important factors to writing signs, especially for educators of Deaf children.

And yes, I noticed in SignPuddle Online that you had already written the movements the same. And as you say, you have it in DELEGS too! Wonderful!

Val ;-)

--------- 

> On Jan 26, 2022, at 10:06 AM, Stefan Woehrmann <000000068eb2df61-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.VALENCIACOLLEGE.EDU> wrote:
> 
> Hi Uta, dear Valerie, 
> 
> just for fun I studied the questions of Uta Meißner and found Your answer Valerie...
> 
> So many memories from previous spelling discussions came to my mind. And do you remember my explanation of why 
> SignWriting without "Mundbilder"  is just an eternal guessing game for my deaf students. Well, that's 
> how I developed the "Mundbilder in GebaerdenSchrift" and for a different purpose "MundbildSchrift". Certain speech movements 
> are associated with very specific mouth symbols, and now 
> you can read and understand the "mouthmovements" performed when signing German Sign Language DGS. The meaningful reading of SignWriting is 
>  so much faster and so much clearer. There is an end to  the guessing game. Of course you always have to keep in mind the ideas of the scribe. What is the 
> purpose for the written SignWriting document?  Lessons at the school for Deaf 
> children simply cannot do without the Mundbilder. Great to see that my transcription is so similar to your example.
>  
> Attached is my diagram. I saw the video. 
> 
> - Geschwindigkeit (speed):
> https://sign2mint.de/entry/Geschwindigkeit/5750242766511595:118
> 
> 
> 
> You find this sign in the wonderful, wonderful delegs-program...
> 
> https://apps.delegs.de/delegseditor/
> 
> All best Yours
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Am Mi., 26. Jan. 2022 um 18:15 Uhr schrieb Valerie Sutton <sutton at signwriting.org>:
> SignWriting List
> January 26, 2022
> 
> Hello SignWriting List and Uta!
> 
> Thank you, Uta, for this wonderful message. Let me answer one question at a time. And I certainly hope others will answer too ;-)
> 
> I love your work and look forward to long hours studying it ;-)
> 
> Meanwhile, your first question below about how to write fast reduplicated movement.
> 
> Attached is my diagram. I saw the video. When a movement is 2 very fast with an emphasis on one direction, we write it this way, with two arrows in one direction. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ______________
> 
> - Geschwindigkeit (speed):
> https://sign2mint.de/entry/Geschwindigkeit/5750242766511595:118
> 
> This gesture contains a reduplicated movement -> M +. 
> Do you see it the same way? 
> 
> ____________
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jan 26, 2022, at 6:16 AM, Uta Meißner <uta.hielscher at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I'm interested to know if you guys think of the model when you're transcribing a gesture. I usually don't. But I think it might be a good idea to consider this model. Only, I have trouble determining the correct M-H syllable in some signs. 
>> 
>> For a common understanding there are examples:
>> 
>> - Geschwindigkeit (speed):
>> https://sign2mint.de/entry/Geschwindigkeit/5750242766511595:118
>> 
>> This gesture contains a reduplicated movement -> M +. 
>> Do you see it the same way? 
>> 
>> - Default
>> https://sign2mint.de/entry/Default/8088731661663380:55
>> 
>> This gesture contains a reduplicated movement with hold -> MH +.
>> Do you see it like this?
>> 
>> Impuls:
>> https://sign2mint.de/entry/Impuls/5750242766511595:801
>> 
>> This gesture contains a simple movement with hold -> MH
>> 
>> I'm not sure when a hold is when there is a simple contact (*) or when the movement is stopped (~). 
>> 
>> So, now I come to a problem:
>> Which syllable has this sign?  HMH ? or MH +
>> https://sign2mint.de/entry/Daten/8088731661663380:40
>> 
>> Which syllable has this sign? 
>> <image.png>
>> HMH
>> or
>> <image.png>
>> MH + but in different places
>> 
>> <image.png>
>> or this signwriting. HMH. 
>> 
>> Which sign writing do you prefer. Or would you write the sign differently.
>> 
>> I can't tell when the gesture starts. When the right hand already arrives at the left hand or before. 
>> Is it possible to determine this for sure using The LIddell and Johnson Movement-Hold Model?
>> 
>> It is important to me that the gesture can be found safely by most users via signsearch. 
>> 
>> What movement symbols would you choose:
>> There are 5 different movement tracks in signsearch:
>> - straight motion trace
>> - wavy motion trace
>> - angular motion trace
>> - circular motion track
>> - spiral motion track
>> 
>> Which sign writing do you prefer. Or would you write the sign differently. 
>> 
>> It is important to me that the sign can be found via signsearch. 
>> 
>> What movement symbols would you choose:
>> There are 5 different motion traces in signsearch:
>> - straight motion trace
>> - wavy motion trace
>> - angular motion trace
>> - circular motion track
>> - spiral motion track
>> 
>> 
>> It is important to me that the sign search works well, that a searched sign is found with only a few selected symbols. And this is really the case with many signs. :) We are very proud of this, but we want to make it even better. :) 
>> 
>> I am looking forward to your knowledge and experience. :)
>> 
>> Best regards 
>> and a nice day to all of you
> ________________________________________________
> 
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> 
> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
> 
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> ________________________________________________
> 
> SIGNWRITING LIST INFORMATION
> 
> Valerie Sutton SignWriting List moderator sutton at signwriting.org
> 
> Post Messages to the SignWriting List: sw-l at listserv.valenciacollege.edu
> 
> SignWriting List Archives & Home Page http://www.signwriting.org/forums/swlist
> 
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________________________________________________

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