[Sw-l] Revision 09 for draft-slevinski-formal-signwriting

Sun Jan 30 20:06:38 UTC 2022

Hi all, and thanks UTA for you input too.

There is a symbol for when a hand does not move, it's ~ .

I've noticed that for people who start learning sign-writing, one of 
theirs and it was mine too, to distinguish which hand is which.  The way 
that works best for me is analyzing the arrow head that come from or to 
a hand so to tell if it's the right or left hand.  If there are no arrow 
heads available, then the right most symbol is the right hand and left 
most symbol is the left hand, except in the case of the arms crossed 
over the big X  then you know that the left hand is on the right and the 
right hand is on the left.  So I believe that's why

There has been an effort while writing to write as little as possible 
and for the writing to still be ineligible.  So I believe that's why the 
hand symbols are right and left hand  symbol or even any of the hand 
symbols actually right or left hand, only that some usually are only 
used for right or left, but not always.  Which I believe is part of the 
problem of sorting.  I created an algorithm that analyzing the arrows 
and hand positions categorized them as right or left hand and first set 
of right-left hands and second-set of right-left hands to be able to put 
the symbols in an order so that the signs could be sorted.  It worked 
for most signs,  but some have to have the symbols ordered manually.  So 
I never finished ordering my dictionaries as for all the effort it was 
taking was keeping me from publishing it.  And I decided to first 
publish with oral language order, then if anybody wanted it sign order, 
I would finish it.  No one ever requested it so, that's were that has 
stayed.

Steve,

     What I understand from your examples on the web 
page(https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-slevinski-formal-signwriting-09.html#name-proposed-null-symbol) 
is that the null Symbol would be per syllable or set of hand grouping in 
the case that there is only one hand and another non-hand symbol like 
contact.

     How are you determining which of the two hands comes first in the 
symbol list if there are two?

If we have a sign with two hands and one contact symbol and removed one 
of the two, would the null symbol still come after the remaining hand 
symbol in both cases?

I think I would've called it the empty symbol as opposed to the null 
symbol.  Because it's a value to fill in, not a value that we don't know.

Jonathan

On 1/30/2022 11:30 AM, Uta Meißner wrote:
> Hi all,
>
>
> And why s is not a symbol for ressesive hand, which is one's rests 
> (don't move).
>
> I need this. and this Symbol should be a little point. this should 
> remember on a nail. 🙂 Very simple.
>
> What do you think?
> and you, Adam, the inventor of null-Symbol 🙂
>
> Best regards
> Uta
>
>
>
>
> Uta Meißner <uta.hielscher at gmail.com> schrieb am So., 30. Jan. 2022, 
> 18:12:
>
>     Hi Stephen,
>
>     A question of understanding:
>
>     A maximum of 2 hand shapes may be entered per character, so that
>     there is one dominant and one rezessiv hand.
>
>     When writing a sign script, I have to make sure that the dominant
>     hand is entered first, then the recessive hand. Only by the order
>     alone hands are recognized as either dominant or recessive hand.
>     Correct?
>
>     Sometimes you have to enter end-hand shape, because otherwise it
>     is not clear what the end-hand shape looks like.
>
>     I.e. when writing, you always have to consciously enter the zero
>     symbol if it is a one-hand gesture. The null symbol is not entered
>     automatically, right?
>
>     The fact that there is a zero symbol is definitely great for the
>     sign search.
>     🙂
>
>     But I need your creative minds on how to incorporate the zero
>     symbol into the sign search. Normally, a selected symbol is always
>     entered in the search field. Only that there is no picture for it,
>     you can not click on it and see the feedback in the search field. 🙈
>
>     Sign2mint.de has a toggle to choose between Iswa and drawing. For
>     drawing, it is easy, a new image can be created with just one hand.
>
>     Best regards!
>     Uta
>
>
>
>     Stephen Slevinski <slevin at signpuddle.net> schrieb am So., 30. Jan.
>     2022, 17:26:
>
>         Hi SignWriting List,
>
>         Today I posted a new revision of the internet draft:
>         draft-slevinski-formal-signwriting.
>         It includes two changes.
>
>         First, I've removed part of the styling string for individual
>         symbol
>         zoom and offset.
>         When I first added this feature, I thought it was a good idea.
>         However, this feature creates problems and complicates simple
>         processing.
>         Last month I finally realized why it was such a problem.
>         I couldn't find any workable solutions, so I decided to remove it.
>         I will be updating the available software packages in the near
>         future.
>         One step back, two steps forward.
>
>         Second, I've added a proposal for a new "null symbol".
>         This was inspired by discussions with Adam Frost and his ideas
>         about
>         sorting.
>         Talking with Val, this is a long standing issue.
>         I'm still thinking through the issue, but I think this is a
>         good fix.
>         You can read more about it here:
>         https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-slevinski-formal-signwriting-09.html#name-proposed-null-symbol
>
>         Regards,
>         -Steve
>
>         ________________________________________________
>
>
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